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China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

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Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shkreli's investors straight up testified they didn't feel victimized and that they would invest with him again. He didn't lose them any money or have any actual damages to people for the crime he was convicted of. I don't think he'd go to jail for what he did there in China, or even probably Singapore. If you're thinking of the pharmacy drug price jacking thing, the thing he did that physically harmed many people, h…

> Shkreli's investors straight up testified they didn't feel victimized That makes it right? And that is what you think is reprehensible about him ?

You're moving goalposts.

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? Everyone in the party is incolved in similar crimes. The only thing they are guilty off in addition is a lack of loyalty to emperor xi. Incompetence and criminal corruption, that you can edit out of history, but intrigue is unforgivable.

Are you sure? Do you have an example of substantial disaster or scandal that resulted in loss of life and loss of face for China, but perpetuators got away? For UK I have: Grenfell tower scandal (over 100 dead, no one in prison), infected blood scandal (thousands dead, no one in prison), postmaster scandal (thousands falsely imprisoned , no perpetrator in prison), etc.

Are we restricting this to businesses, or is the genocide of the Uyghurs fair game?

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#303
post #144

does punishing corruption with a death sentence - look excessive ? Yes! is it prone to abuse by those who yield power - Yes! however - the alternative - where corruption goes unchecked is even worse!! if you come from a poor country e.g in Africa - you would've experienced the effects of corruption. American are now experiencing it now - & the country is already worse off. though before corruption in American was use…

Death sentence is excessive. But many people here will be comparing it to the USA where the current punishment for corruption is nothing. Literally nothing. You just get away with it in plain sight We don't need death sentence, we just need, like, any regular sentence

The alternative is 4 years of house arrest, just until the next administration can issue a pardon. There is no sentence between 4 years and capital punishment.

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#304
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shkreli's investors straight up testified they didn't feel victimized That makes it right? And that is what you think is reprehensible about him ?

You're moving goalposts.

>> It's also not like the West doesn't impose extremely harsh punishments on the top financial crimes. You can go away for life if you steal enough money.

> You're moving goalposts

How?

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#305
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only one person opened fire. He got 100 years. (I agree that he shouldn't have gotten a slap on the wrist for what he did, but I'll happily point out that killers serve less, if at all.) The rest got 70. None of them had guns. The guy who got 30 years wasn't even at the protest. --- There is no universe where this is not completely batshit insane, but it's interesting to see you use the exact same logic[1] the CCP ha…

I think your confusion comes from the fact this wasn't a protest gone awry, it was an organized domestic terrorist attack. It was a small group of armed people in body armor who privately organized a domestic terrorist attack intending to cause damage and hurt/kill federal officers in an ambush. The only reason the officer lived was because Song's gun jammed before he could kill people and get away. Certainly if this…

This guy carried out an organized domestic terrorist attack with help from others, actually killed someone as well as badly injuring another, and got only 41 years. Why the disparity?

The Federal Building where he murdered the security guard is just an administrative building; at least the people in Texas were motivated by the somewhat reasonable belief that they were attacking guards at a concentration camp.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/steven-carrillo-sentenc...

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing they have zero tolerance for is the embarrassment, not the corruption, pollution, crime, or other abuse. You can do whatever you can get away with so long as you don't cause embarrassment or shame.

That's one of the big cultural differences that people from the West don't really get - that "saving face" is one of the core concepts that Eastern societies are built on - not the actual things that, when discovered, cause you to lose face (e.g. corruption).

Saving face is certainly A Thing, but China has also had a strict legalistic tradition extending back about 2500 years. There's rather more to Chinese public life and philosophy than 'Confucius say' and the CCP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalism_(Chinese_philosophy)

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#307
post #115

The antifreeze toothpaste people didn’t get away with it, nor did the 3000 pigs in the river people, and nor did that one group of executives who were in charge of a fertilizer/chemical plant that was one of the largest industrial catastrophes in the world let alone China. If you get caught in China, Vietnam, or Singapore the penalties for white collar criminals is zero tolerance. You can’t buy your way out if you do…

? Everyone in the party is incolved in similar crimes. The only thing they are guilty off in addition is a lack of loyalty to emperor xi. Incompetence and criminal corruption, that you can edit out of history, but intrigue is unforgivable.

You're assuming that this guy was actually being prosecuted for crimes or that this guy lacked loyalty to Xi Jinping. A tremendous number of top generals and leadership has been wiped out in a short time and not necessarily refilled, and it's not because China has a huge disloyalty problem.

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#308
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All presidents rise to power on a message of anti-corruption, they all clean house when they start in office but usually it falls off until the next president takes over. The problem Xi has is that now that he is now president for life, the house isn't getting cleaned in the usual way every 10 years; he has to do a corruption purge every so often or things will get grimey.

> All presidents rise to power on a message of anti-corruption You mean in China specifically? Otherwise there are some pretty harsh counterexamples to that "all".

I'm just talking about China, we were only talking about China right? We don't really have a lot of data points to go by since there have been only three presidents so far with supreme power (after it was combined with General Secretary and military chair head, before that president was more of a ceremonial role).

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the big cultural differences that people from the West don't really get - that "saving face" is one of the core concepts that Eastern societies are built on - not the actual things that, when discovered, cause you to lose face (e.g. corruption).

Saving face is certainly A Thing, but China has also had a strict legalistic tradition extending back about 2500 years. There's rather more to Chinese public life and philosophy than 'Confucius say' and the CCP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalism_(Chinese_philosophy)

You got it. I'm not saying that saving face is the only cultural priority - just that it's a much greater one than in most Western cultures - and most Westerners don't understand that, and that leads to misunderstanding of the mindset and rationale for actions and decisions.

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine if Trump won and put Harris in jail. Trump definitely thought about doing that, but even the judges he appointed wouldn't go for it. He still talks about putting Obama in jail for reasons.

I mean, Trump was prosecuted as well and plenty of people want to put him in jail. My point is these kinds of things can't really be argued purely from a meta-level, the actual specifics matter. And in the case of China and Xi, I certainly don't know the specifics and I doubt most people here do either.

Trump was actually convicted of a felony in New York even though he wasn't put in jail. Trump wants to throw his political enemies in jail without due process, very different thing.
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