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Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

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Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#291

Post by tjwebbnorfolk »

mrtksn wrote: post #272
tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once the camera is there, the temptation for future governments to use this power for more things than originally required will become irresistible. also: https://www.google.com/search?q=what+does+slippery+slope+mea...

That's not slippery slope, no cameras are required. The whole outrage is based on bullshit ragebait.

and what sensor do you propose using to make sure people appear awake and alert? a magic device that can evaluate posture, demeanor, facial expression, wakefulness, etc but somehow definitely is not a camera?

yes you've read the text accurately, now it's time to use your brain and consider what it means.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#292

Post by have_faith »

6LLvveMx2koXfwn wrote: post #84

I have a 2012 Skoda Yeti, 170000 miles. Serviced every year, never had anything go wrong with it yet. If it starts costing me money I will buy a 2012 Skoda Yeti from Autotrader with 50000 miles on the clock. At my age that should just about do me :)

I’ve got 2017 Yeti (last year they were made) with 80k miles on it, will probably keep it for another decade. I wish I could buy an electric yeti but everything else about it staying the same.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#293

Post by slopinthebag »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #282
slopinthebag wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “green movement” and “the environment” but mostly a desire for control. Why should people be able to own private property like cars, we should all be using government owned means of transportation in our new socialist utopia.

Who desires the control? Can you name a member of this nebulous conspiracy? Nobody I've spoken to about this topic has been able to.

I don’t need to know the names of the various lawmakers, lawyers, and politicians to know that they exist and to see the effects of their work. You’re being willfully blind here.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#294

Post by ang_cire »

mrtksn wrote: post #249
tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what we call a slippery slope

Nope, that's not what we call slippery slope. This system does not require data recording or sharing, does not require cameras.

It absolutely is a slippery slope argument.

"New government mandate paves way for additional government mandate" is about as straightforward a slippery slope argument as you can get.

Slippery slope arguments don't require the eventual fear (e.g. cameras recording you) to be present in the current form, otherwise it wouldn't be a slope.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#295

Post by cloverich »

mfro wrote: post #223
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

For those interested or forced to buy a new car — I recently picked up a brand new Hyundai and was impressed the new tech does not get in the way. ‘Driver attention warning’ does not have a face camera, it just uses the front sensor to confirm you’re not all over the place. It can also be disabled. Lane assist can be disabled with one button on the wheel. Almost all important controls are real (non capacitive) button…

We have two new Hyunadai's. My experience is mixed. For one, I get the "consider taking a break" warning constantly - possibly my sleepy eyes? In the Sante Fe, the cruise control disengages constantly b/c it can't see my face when I drive with left hand (my default) - this does not happen in our Ioniq though. Rear view camera + warning has been helpful on one occasion, but both rear and side cameras have fully disengaged my ability to drive many (30+) times when it was safe to do so. Basically in a city where you need to pull out and weave into traffic, if you begin moving too early it'll stop the car and also prevent the gas pedal from working (even if you let off and press many times). My most favorite is it would do this in my kids school drop off (cars are close and all moving at 5mph). The traffic helper knew this would happen to me and we had many laughs about it, after the first few times of them waving me a bit aggressively (why aren't you moving yet?). "Did you forget something in backseat" alarm goes off every time I park, I suppose from kid's car seats. Lane assist is nice when helpful, but very annoying when not (~10% helpful, 90% FP). My general read on the lane assist warning is its simply too sensitive. I disable the lane assist on cruise control, otherwise the adaptive cruise control is 90% good (it only can't seem to figure out to speed up when passing a semi, and will slow down instead).

Very generally speaking, if I could disable all of the safety features I definitely would, they are almost exclusively false positives in my case and occur every time I drive. Yet its only two specific ones that are genuinely a nuisance (rather than annoying): The face detection on cruise control, and the car-disabling when I'm pulling out (which at times is out right dangerous).

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#296

Post by LtWorf »

hylaride wrote: post #284
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

> Then there's the incessant beeping at you As a Canadian that did a road trip through the balkans over the winter, the rental car was constantly beeping at me for something. It was misreading signs and due to the bad weather (it was during a huge snowstorm in January) the roads weren't very clear and it was constantly confused. I also had some very unhappy drivers (especially in Albania) furiously trying to get arou…

My friend rented a car and he told me that the wheel was moving by itself trying to follow the road. Then he tried taking his hands off and see if the car would follow the line. Nope, it would go straight into a wall (he of course was going slow for the experiment and didn't hit the wall). So it was more like fighting some "smart" feature that distracts you even more from actually pointing the car where you want it to go.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#297

Post by uniq7 »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #55
driverdan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The intrusiveness of these systems varies significantly between manufacturers. Don't buy one with an annoying, intrusive system.

Most of the rentals around my neck of the woods are VWs or entry-level Mercedes. The two seem approximately equally bad; they both have the exact same problems with cruise control, lane assist beeps, speed limit beeps, "take a break!" beeps, and so on. I've heard that Dacia has some models that are like 2008 throwbacks, with "modern" annoyances kept to a bare minimum, but they're considered too low-market for the ren…

I'm the owner of a 2025 Dacia Jogger. It has a physical button to disable all warnings and alarms, which I really appreciate, but I still need to press that button twice (with ~1s of delay between pushes), and I need to do it every time I turn the car on.

I bought the model with no internet connection, so the speed limit is automatically read by the front camera, and it's usually wrong. Although the alarm can be disabled, it still shows a distracting visual warning on the dashboard. I covered mine with duck tape, but now everyone who goes into the car asks me why I'm covering a warning with duck tape, and I have to explain them every time.

I converted the car into a camper, but some digital features are always on, even when the car is off.

For example, the car continuously detects the wireless key, so I bought some Faraday cage wallets to store them while we sleep. However, they don't work, so at the end I had to make my own Faraday cage wallets with aluminum foil and duck tape (yeah, in this project I found that duck tape is really versatile).

Another issue that really bothers me is that the car detects movement, even when it is completely off. Whenever I'm sleeping and I change position, the center screen lights on, some relays start to click, and some fan runs for a couple of seconds. Then, after ~10 seconds everything turns off again. It drives me crazy.

I got this car just because I wanted something shorter than 4.5m (but that could fit a 120 x 190 cm bed), with a reliable engine (this is a 1.6L from 2005, created by Renault & Nissan, without any known issues), and without internet connection. I reviewed hundreds of cars, and this was basically our only option in our country.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#298

Post by dwa3592 »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

>>The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit

is this a feature really? is it only applied in European cars?

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#299

Post by Sabinus »

drnick1 wrote: post #102
thegrim33 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, that's the point. They want to enshitify cars and make driving as expensive and as annoying as possible to force people out of cars. They know they can't just ban cars outright, so they enshitify this little thing this year, mandate this other thing the next year, add a new tax/fee the next year, add a new restriction the next year, reduce speed limits the next year, etc., etc., all in the name of safety /…

You forgot the bike lanes that take up road space but nobody uses. Every socialist mayor's favorite anti-car policy.

"Just one more car lane bro it'll fix congestion this time I swear."

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#300

Post by BeetleB »

illusive4080 wrote: post #260
BeetleB wrote: post #258

I love the warning about not having hands on the steering wheel. It goes off all the time. And each time, my hands are on the steering wheel. It doesn't actually detect contact - it checks to see if you're actively adjusting the steering wheel. Except I don't need to! The lane keep assist is so good that it's rare I have to give it additional help. So - I kid you not - I've gotten used to giving a nudge to the steeri…

I do this too. Want to get a comma.ai device just so I don’t have to wiggle the steering wheel.

comma.ai will not disable the warning. This is a warning that's on all the time.
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