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Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

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Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#201

Post by aenis »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #76
borosuxks wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it's actual regulations, but the Euro NCAP safety tests requiring all these "features" (like not remembering when you turn them off) to get a max score. And who doesn't want the safest car?

how much have cars safety improved in terms of crashes, airbags, etc, versus the robot will stop the crash?

Impossible to measure, many other uncontrolled variables - esp. significant improvements to infrastructure in Europe, and regulations. Take NL, where a crash involving a pedestrian or a cyclist effectively forces the driver to prove their innocence. I can walk across a Dutch town blindfolded with the biggest risk to my wellbeing being cyclists (well, and the canals). I'd guess the impact of those intervention dwarfs the "i will beep at you until i make you deaf if you don't put your seatbelt over your grocery bag" innovations.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#202

Post by tjwebbnorfolk »

altern8 wrote: post #156
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

Same here. I drive a 1991 Honda Prelude and I don't think I'll want to drive anything else probably ever.

93 Honda Civic here. 100% agree. I don't appreciate anything on a car that does stuff on its own without my direct input.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#203

Post by benjiro29 »

snapetom wrote: post #109
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

Last year, I rented a Kia. I was coasting downhill on a curve and approached a group of bikers. Everything was fine. I was a little below the speed limit, they were in the bike lane, I was in my lane, it was a sunny day. The car detected them as a hazard to avoid and STRAIGHTENED AND LOCKED MY STEERING WHEEL in the middle of the curve turn. I ran into a shallow ditch, but holy shit, what if it took control and over c…

> on a curve

O yea, that is driver lane assist ... A Toyota rental had the same issue. In a specific steep exit corner (that goes up facing the sun), how many ** times the lane assist tries to force the car to go straight (as in, off the hill! ). The first few times when it happens, scares the ** out of me.

Another fun one is going down a hill in a Rental Opel, roundabout with some cars, no problem. Slowing down naturally, while i see the cars accelerate to enter the roundabout. No need to break as by the time i get close, the cars will have started to accelerate. So my speed will have matched the last vehicles speed by the time i am close. Suddenly, emergency break slam on !!! Because "the car was going to hit the cars in front". Like, wtf!! That created a extreme dangerous situation if there was a car behind.

I really see no benefits for a lot of those new safety features. The old ones like traction controle etc, great, keep them. But all this external monitoring, internal monitoring ... If your a safe driver, those features can make it more dangerous.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#205

Post by frollogaston »

drnick1 wrote: post #102
thegrim33 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, that's the point. They want to enshitify cars and make driving as expensive and as annoying as possible to force people out of cars. They know they can't just ban cars outright, so they enshitify this little thing this year, mandate this other thing the next year, add a new tax/fee the next year, add a new restriction the next year, reduce speed limits the next year, etc., etc., all in the name of safety /…

You forgot the bike lanes that take up road space but nobody uses. Every socialist mayor's favorite anti-car policy.

That's the classic. City is not friendly to bikes or peds, they add bike lanes, city is not friendly to bikes peds or cars.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#206

Post by jhallenworld »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

>2008

I bought a 2017 Kia Forte S recently.. ($4000 for 137K miles) no touch screen, but many safety features that are not too bad like radar collision detection and blindspot warning. 2019 they started with the touchscreen, and in 2023 they added "Kia Connect" with OTA updates. Anyway definitely check the year.

Problem with 2008 is some cars didn't even have Bluetooth audio or backup camera yet (like my 2010 VW CC- I had to add an aftermarket radio).

Also don't get direct inject only engine. At least for Kias, the non-turbo engines are much more reliable (but underpowered for sure).

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#207

Post by dumbmrblah »

peterlk wrote: post #59
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

Over Christmas, I spent several minutes trying to debug my beeping dashboard - it only seemed to happen sometimes while driving, so stopping didn’t let me figure it out. Eventually I discovered that it was beeping at me because my eyes weren’t on the road enough. Of course, figuring that out required me to take my eyes off the road to figure out which blinking signal was associated with this particular alarm. Also, b…

So to play devil's advocate... were you taking your eyes off the road for too long?

There are many many poor drivers and many many distracted drivers out there. I'm not accusing you of one, but maybe a little bit of self-introspection may be necessary.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#208

Post by mort96 »

afarah1 wrote: post #68
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #6

All new cars. At this point I don't know if I'd buy anything made after 2008. Whenever I rent a new car around here (in the EU) I find them very annoying. The worst is the cruise control that tries to stick to the speed limit -- but its sensors don't always read the signs very well, so you'll often slow to 50 km/h (about 30 mph) for no reason. Then there's the incessant beeping at you, "lane assist" that you can't tu…

EU driving assists are obtrusive to the point of making driving less safe in my experience. Great video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-S76WEl25k

IMO most features are annoying and contribute to alarm fatigue and driver irritation, but are not directly dangerous.

Lane keep assist though? I often drive on narrow country roads barely wide enough for two cars, with a white line on each side but no center line. To avoid large oncoming cars, I need to drive on the white line to my right. When I do, lane keep assist activates motors in my steering wheel which try to force the car into the oncoming traffic.

Easy to turn on in the modern car I sometimes drive, but oh my god, that was scary the first few times it happened. Beeping at me is bad enough but messing with the steering wheel??? This should be illegal, not required!

I'm mostly pro EU but this crap is genuinely making me resent them.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#209

Post by aucisson_masque »

Dries007 wrote: post #33
awakeasleep wrote: post #9

Ford has had that since Blue Cruise 2.0, or thereabouts. It really shocked me how often it catches my attention being diverted. Things like talking to my passengers, adjusting the climate controls, or eating- I'm not even talking about 'advanced distractions' like my phone. It also seemed really accurate. I never remember it beeping at me when I was actually paying attention. It's totally plausible to me that this ki…

My experience with my Volvo EX30 has been the complete opposite. Although the false positives have gone down with software updates, it's still wrong so often I turn it off every time it bothers me. Due to some other regulation, this setting is unfortunately not remembered. That means every time I get in the car, I have to spend time going trough the settings to disable it, often while already driving. Seems like a gr…

Is that the regulation that is bad or the way the manufacturer implemented it ?

I think your comment and the one you were answering to explain it very well.

Don't buy car that sucks.

Re: Every new car sold in the European Union must include a driver monitoring camera

#210

Post by tjwebbnorfolk »

Maybe I'll get downvoted for being off topic, but when we try to say "EU has too much regulation", this is the kind of shit we're talking about.

Nobody is arguing for zero regulation. But seriously, forcing people to pay extra for their own surveillance in their own car?

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