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Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

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Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#281

Post by mmarq »

froh wrote: post #122
probably_wrong wrote: post #48

I migrated to Germany 10+ years ago and I'm still here. Based on my limited experience, there are two big issues. First, things are bad : trains are getting worse every year, the highways are in disrepair (ask me about Bonn!), overloaded doctors, impossibly slow bureaucracy, economic crisis, growing inequality, housing crisis, and so on. If you're a fresh immigrant who cannot find a job in an economic crisis (aka "mo…

there is no certificate higher than C2, so "minimum" C2 is ridicerlus, ackchyually... I assume.thats your point here, but to bystanders: C2 is nearly native speaker language proficiency, nuanced, precise, eloquent. if language production is the job, or impeccable understanding is a must have, like as a psychotherapist, then C2 is a reasonable requirement. in contrast you can study in german language at a German unive…

C2 is better than the language proficiency of the median native speaker.

A C2 speaker is comparable to a highly educated native speaker with a master degree who reads regularly.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#282

Post by g8oz »

throwaway27448 wrote: post #239
suddenlybananas wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you watched the news in the past couple of years?

In practice, even the Trump administration is far less hostile to immigration than their rhetoric would betray.

ICE agents are arresting people when they show up for green card interviews.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#283

Post by sva_ »

probably_wrong wrote: post #48

I migrated to Germany 10+ years ago and I'm still here. Based on my limited experience, there are two big issues. First, things are bad : trains are getting worse every year, the highways are in disrepair (ask me about Bonn!), overloaded doctors, impossibly slow bureaucracy, economic crisis, growing inequality, housing crisis, and so on. If you're a fresh immigrant who cannot find a job in an economic crisis (aka "mo…

> First, things are bad

As a German, it sounds like you integrated well.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#284

Post by zerr »

lispisok wrote: post #182
ikut3hva wrote: post #165

Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…

So your complaint is you wanted permanent residence in Germany but did not want to learn to speak German?

Permanent residency is a business deal between two entities: an individual and a state. It has nothing to do with linguistics. There are many Germans permanently living in Vietnam, Thailand and other Southeast Asian countries, who never bothered to even learn how to say Hello, not to mention any certificate or exam...

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#285

Post by dghlsakjg »

Hardwired8976 wrote: post #271
dghlsakjg wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If German is an ethnicity, I don't see why the US, which is older than the German Confederation (let alone the subsequent countries that have existed since then on that same land) has a distinct culture and set of shared values, cannot be.

Native Americans would be a ethnicity but the US was taken over my European settlers. Europe the Germanic people have existed way before , a country is not tied to the ethnicity.

A country is not tied to ethnicity but this thread is about how German is an ethnicity.

I’ve heard plenty of arguments about the German Volk as a distinct entity.

The argument was pretty decisively lost according to my grandfather.

Tell me, where does my Jewish German heritage fit in to Germany as an ethnicity? For some reason they didn’t feel very German when they left despite meeting all the qualifications…

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#287

Post by eldaisfish »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #264
anthonj wrote: post #31

I think there is also a chicken-egg problem in almost every country that doesn't use English as official language: If you are not an engineer you must have an almost excellent level of local language --> an excellent level of a language is only possible if you are immersed daily over a long time and have the time to study --> to live there you need a job --> back to start Different counties have different tolerances…

> If you are not an engineer you must have an almost excellent level of local language --> an excellent level of a language is only possible if you are immersed daily over a long time and have the time to study I disagree: for many jobs, it is expected that you have a decent level of English, but at least in Germany, you are often not immersed a lot in English. So you have to get decent in English with barely any imm…

Your argument ignores one important aspect - incentives.

English is the global lingua franca, hence the incentive to learn English is incredibly strong. Outside of Germany, what exact benefit does the German language get you?

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#288

Post by thenoblesunfish »

dgs_sgd wrote: post #226
ikut3hva wrote: post #165

Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…

I appreciate your perspective, but I was curious what B1 proficiency actually entails and this is what I found [1]: - understand the main points of clear standard speech on familiar topics such as work, school, or leisure - manage most situations that occur while traveling in German-speaking areas - produce simple, connected text on familiar subjects - describe experiences, events, dreams, hopes, and ambitions, and b…

Agreed, and (especially if you are a nerd who is good at tests) the description of the levels always seemed to me to imply more ability than what you really need to pass the test. OP, just study for the test and pass it. You can, and you will be proud of yourself and happier in your new home country.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#289

Post by bluGill »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #232
chis wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an interesting divide. "German" is both an ethnicity and a citizenship, and it's possible to become one but not the other. "American" on the other hand is purely a citizenship, and so it is possible to become an American after immigrating.

If German is an ethnicity, I don't see why the US, which is older than the German Confederation (let alone the subsequent countries that have existed since then on that same land) has a distinct culture and set of shared values, cannot be.

There are shared values in the US, but not many. Love of the US, and 'freedom' is about all, for the later we don't agree in what freedom means.

There are many different distinct cultures in the US. Cowboys from north Dakota and Texas are both cowboys but have little cultural connection, and the hill billies Tennessee are very different from each.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#290

Post by bluGill »

Hardwired8976 wrote: post #271
dghlsakjg wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If German is an ethnicity, I don't see why the US, which is older than the German Confederation (let alone the subsequent countries that have existed since then on that same land) has a distinct culture and set of shared values, cannot be.

Native Americans would be a ethnicity but the US was taken over my European settlers. Europe the Germanic people have existed way before , a country is not tied to the ethnicity.

Native American is not an ethnicity unless you reduce to absurd levels. There are many different ethnicities across the continent.
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