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YC CEO says he ships 37K LoC AI code per day. A developer looked under the hood

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Re: YC CEO says he ships 37K LoC AI code per day. A developer looked under the hood

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a question about if GStack is 'good enough' - it's the claims about 37K LOC being legitimate. Because it's producing 'functional slop' that has little bearing on how anything else would be made the 37K LOC is totally out of context and therefore a misrepresentation. He has bragging rights over GStack - not 37K LOC, that's bad.

That's a great way to put it: functional slop. That's what I mean tho - as long as it is minimally functional it does its job. I totally get the shade thrown at ycombinator. But I guess my perception is that it has never been about the tech for them and more about getting quick hacks to get to market quickly. So it feels on brand?

> functional slop

I suppose the question is: will customers and business people care?

At the end of the day, if the system does what it needs to do to in exchange for money, then it's a success if people's eyes. Heck, even basic security and privacy features get ignored in most systems.

Average person treats their computers like any other appliance, they don't care if the app takes 10 minutes to load, or is slow, or ad ridden, they just want it to work.

Engineers obsess about code quality as an artistic expression but the reality is that executives and investors won't care. You can scream "maintenance burden!" all you want, but investors will happily throw money at the problem down the line to make it go away.

Our industry simply doesn't have any required rigor outside of a few edge cases in heavily regulated industries.

Re: YC CEO says he ships 37K LoC AI code per day. A developer looked under the hood

#102
post #98
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imho, this is the biggest concern for civilization-scale cost of AI being deployed all fields. On the one hand: Amazing power! Look at how much more output everyone is generating! On the other hand: Society maintaining guardrails that were engineered around human failure modes are completely inappropriate for bounding something that makes 10% random errors everywhere. To re-use an example upthread... what if you had…

> We could fix that by requiring grounding in building codes, automated reviews, etc. It's an open question whether, with all those guardrails, AI would provide any speedup.

Absolutely. I have an inkling that there's an AI version of Amdahl's law to the effect of: the speedup obtained by AI is proportional to the amount of AI output that isn't verified.

Folks push back and say "But there are tons of things where deterministic verification is easy, but design is hard."

But I'm suspicious that in real world cases verification is a lot harder and more time-consuming (because you can't verify 95% of something and call it a day).

Re: YC CEO says he ships 37K LoC AI code per day. A developer looked under the hood

#104
post #102
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We could fix that by requiring grounding in building codes, automated reviews, etc. It's an open question whether, with all those guardrails, AI would provide any speedup.

Absolutely. I have an inkling that there's an AI version of Amdahl's law to the effect of: the speedup obtained by AI is proportional to the amount of AI output that isn't verified. Folks push back and say "But there are tons of things where deterministic verification is easy, but design is hard." But I'm suspicious that in real world cases verification is a lot harder and more time-consuming (because you can't verif…

I have a hunch that most of the things humans do are AI-complete. Very little of it can be easily automated directly without AGI. We can achieve automation by re-orienting our workflows around machines (factory assembly lines, for example), but that isn't always possible or useful. That's what makes ML applications difficult--finding how to re-orient a workflow s.t. an ML algorithm can be used productively in it.

Re: YC CEO says he ships 37K LoC AI code per day. A developer looked under the hood

#105

Seems to be a frequently occurring issue, most (good) software engineers know that LOC basically means nothing, if anything, less LOC is a better goal over more LOC, if you absolutely have to have a goal. As soon as people/companies starts bragging about how many LOC they can ship, you need to start being very suspicious, mostly because they just admitted to not actually understand software engineering at all. Cursor…

[flagged]

Re: YC CEO says he ships 37K LoC AI code per day. A developer looked under the hood

#106
post #40

> The larger point is that while AI coding tools make it easy to pump out lots of code, it’s really (still) the quality of the code that matters. Quantity, in other words, doesn’t necessarily equal quality. They didn't provide any evidence for this point. They showed that the code is bad quality, but not that it matters that it's bad.

My hot take is that the entire history of the personal internet was inefficient, badly built and chaotic and it was much more fun to exist in. I really don't see a problem if it breathes life into the internet for non-technical people to be creative and interesting again. Wordpress etc gave people a cheap voice, but at the cost of immovable guard-rails. And even at a small business level, most stuff people build get'…

Yeah almost all code is just good enough to get the job done. Exceptions include (some) open-source codebases, a few key projects at leading tech companies, and probably the work of obscure geniuses at random companies that nobody else will ever see.

Re: YC CEO says he ships 37K LoC AI code per day. A developer looked under the hood

#107
post #40

> The larger point is that while AI coding tools make it easy to pump out lots of code, it’s really (still) the quality of the code that matters. Quantity, in other words, doesn’t necessarily equal quality. They didn't provide any evidence for this point. They showed that the code is bad quality, but not that it matters that it's bad.

My hot take is that the entire history of the personal internet was inefficient, badly built and chaotic and it was much more fun to exist in. I really don't see a problem if it breathes life into the internet for non-technical people to be creative and interesting again. Wordpress etc gave people a cheap voice, but at the cost of immovable guard-rails. And even at a small business level, most stuff people build get'…

You are completely right.

I have decades of experience building products working with everyone from remote teams I have never met to FAANG employees in Silicon Valley.

Pretty much every product and site is a combination of good work, hacks and hope. When people attack LLMs on the basis of quality I don’t know what they think the standard is?

Outside 8-bit games which shipped in cassette and the Apollo flight computer most modern code only works because it’s been consistently updated and fixed in flight. It’s sad but true.

LLMs write code the way they write English. It’s not pretty but is of much higher general quality than the human average.

Re: YC CEO says he ships 37K LoC AI code per day. A developer looked under the hood

#108
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. It's "good enough" for now and if it needs to be industrialized you can do that later. If it is brand new and has no traffic and is not exposing user data or opening up your keys to someone.... who cares how perfect the code is if it mostly works? Users don't have to use it...

That is, until you have silent corruption of data because the admin tool is not aware of the new field you added to the website, and it's not written with forward compatibility in mind. (Have seen this lots of times) Or a downstream service is overwhelmed and suddenly all the retired you added to different places DDOS your own service. (Also have seen this lots of times) Some quality problems you can fix later. With…

*retired -> retries
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