Does Xi Jinping (or any of his Politburo colleagues) publish their income and/or tax records? Otherwise, this "we are so anti-corruption" stance is basically just political theater as the Courts themselves are CCP-bound.
China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes
251–260 of 523 posts
Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes
#252The antifreeze toothpaste people didn’t get away with it, nor did the 3000 pigs in the river people, and nor did that one group of executives who were in charge of a fertilizer/chemical plant that was one of the largest industrial catastrophes in the world let alone China. If you get caught in China, Vietnam, or Singapore the penalties for white collar criminals is zero tolerance. You can’t buy your way out if you do…
? Everyone in the party is incolved in similar crimes. The only thing they are guilty off in addition is a lack of loyalty to emperor xi. Incompetence and criminal corruption, that you can edit out of history, but intrigue is unforgivable.
Are you sure?
Do you have an example of substantial disaster or scandal that resulted in loss of life and loss of face for China, but perpetuators got away?
For UK I have: Grenfell tower scandal (over 100 dead, no one in prison), infected blood scandal (thousands dead, no one in prison), postmaster scandal (thousands falsely imprisoned , no perpetrator in prison), etc.
Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're only hearing about the ones caught and punished. You have no proof of "Zero tolerance", or of what percentage of people are caught.
"Zero tolerance" and "we catch every criminal" are two unrelated ideas.
luckily the phrase gp wrote was: "caught and punished"
So, zero tolerance cannot be known without correct stats on both catching and punishing. so it is, indeed unknowable.
Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing they have zero tolerance for is the embarrassment, not the corruption, pollution, crime, or other abuse. You can do whatever you can get away with so long as you don't cause embarrassment or shame.
That's one of the big cultural differences that people from the West don't really get - that "saving face" is one of the core concepts that Eastern societies are built on - not the actual things that, when discovered, cause you to lose face (e.g. corruption).
yeah since when does "saving face" not happen in the West? Isn't there a war in europe that's been going on for four-ish years now that essentially a face-saving operation that has killed nearly a million?
Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You can’t buy your way out if you do something Not with money.
It's also not like the West doesn't impose extremely harsh punishments on the top financial crimes. You can go away for life if you steal enough money.
For UK I have: Grenfell tower scandal (over 100 dead, no one in prison), infected blood scandal (thousands dead, no one in prison), postmaster scandal (thousands falsely imprisoned , no perpetrator in prison), no Eipstein clients are I. Prison to this day, Covid procurement was corrupt, no one went to prison
And finally no one went to prison for the global financial crisis, which was caused by fraud
Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
>And he did this as a public servant for over 30 years. and it was discovered just now? May it be that he played exactly by the rules, the real rules, of the regime - corruption being among the foundational rules of it - and thus it was going for 30 years? And right now he just got his turn like it usually happens in totalitarian regimes. The regime will for show find an excuse to execute you if you got your turn, co…
> and it was discovered just now? May it be that he played exactly by the rules, the real rules, of the regime - corruption being among the foundational rules of it - and thus it was going for 30 years? And right now he just got his turn like it usually happens in totalitarian regimes. The regime will for show find an excuse to execute you if you got your turn, corruption is just the easiest one. Yeah, that would be…
You really don’t know what you’re talking about, don’t you? You’re from a Western country, right?
>White collar criminals often get caught later in their "careers" precisely because they do it for years and years and years without being caught.
You’ve definitely never seen the castles and fleets of exotic cars that government officials in those countries manage to get on their meager government salaries. Yet you post such authoritative comments …
Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's one of the big cultural differences that people from the West don't really get - that "saving face" is one of the core concepts that Eastern societies are built on - not the actual things that, when discovered, cause you to lose face (e.g. corruption).
Yeah it’s pretty funny how worked up the CCP get when they’re called out. “How dare you accuse us of launching a spy balloon?”. Whereas Russia hits you with the “oh those aren’t FSB agents, just lovers on vacation ;)”
Well I given that it wasn’t a spy balloon in the end, perhaps they had a point
Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes
#258The antifreeze toothpaste people didn’t get away with it, nor did the 3000 pigs in the river people, and nor did that one group of executives who were in charge of a fertilizer/chemical plant that was one of the largest industrial catastrophes in the world let alone China. If you get caught in China, Vietnam, or Singapore the penalties for white collar criminals is zero tolerance. You can’t buy your way out if you do…
> nor did the 3000 pigs in the river people, and nor did that one group of executives who were in charge of a fertilizer/chemical plant
What about the bridge falling down people, or the overpromised scam apartment people, or the tunnel that flooded people, or the police officers that blocked view of the flowers left for the folks who died in the tunnel that flooded people, or the opened the dam to flood the farmers during the rainy season people, or the fake drains people, or the fake fire hydrants people, or the lead paint in the kids school food people, or the covered up the lead paint in the kids school food doctors, or the barricaded an apartment that was burning during covid people, or the apartments with styrofoam instead of concrete that collapsed in venezuela earthquake people...?
Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing they have zero tolerance for is the embarrassment, not the corruption, pollution, crime, or other abuse. You can do whatever you can get away with so long as you don't cause embarrassment or shame.
That's one of the big cultural differences that people from the West don't really get - that "saving face" is one of the core concepts that Eastern societies are built on - not the actual things that, when discovered, cause you to lose face (e.g. corruption).
Wasnt the especially hard trial and punishment of Chelsea manning, assange, etc. not a punishment by the western establishment for losing face?
Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
5 of the 7 highest ranking officials have been purged in recent years [1]. It’s not totally clear what the consequences were for those purged or if their crimes were legit but seems like they are all in prison. [1]. https://www.afpc.org/publications/articles/the-inevitability...
I'm not saying that those guys weren't corrupt, but that's a classic authoritarian pattern. Purging anybody who might potentially in the future be a threat to your rule is step two in any authoritarian playbook. Were they perchance replaced with unambitious yes men?
To be clear that was 5 of the top 7 in the military not the CCP as a whole. Leaves just Xi and the anti corruption officer.
But yes agreed. It’s very hard to parse what is going on from the outside.
My very uninformed read is that the people who were purged seemed already loyal allies to Xi but had more clout to disagree with him, while the new guys know they are replaceable. The PLA is notoriously corrupt as well so hard to say which of those purges were political control vs corruption based.
I kinda doubt the new guys are unambiguous though you need to be ambitious and risk taking to rise like that in the CCP.