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Re: I'm Begging You to Leave Your AI Note-Taker at Home

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Re: Re: I'm Begging You to Leave Your AI Note-Taker at Home

#71

Post by AnimalMuppet »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #2

> How fucking creepy is that?! How fucking awkward is that? And before you start talking with whoever you're catching up with, you ask "You don't mind, do you?" In living memory, I had a HUMAN notetaker in important meetings. After secretaries left the world went to hell and topic experts and engineers were expected to have social graces, everything got worse. We invented new religions like agile to make up for a goo…

I strongly disagree that agile was invented to make up for the absence of secretaries. Agile was invented to make up for the absence of omniscience (and absence of the recognition of non-omniscience). Secretaries weren't going to make that work.

Re: Re: I'm Begging You to Leave Your AI Note-Taker at Home

#72

Post by munk-a »

vel0city wrote: post #44
munk-a wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Secretaries are compelled by the same privacy and disclosure laws as doctors - AI notetaking apps may or may not be (it'll take examination of the product on a case by case basis) and the public is, at this point, used to AI companies blatantly lying about privacy, confidentiality, training sources, reuse of conversations and pricing - the good faith is gone as a default and in a setting like a HCP that is a terrible…

> Secretaries are compelled by the same privacy and disclosure laws as doctors What HIPAA-like law is there for secretaries?

Anyone handling PII needs to be trained in HIPAA compliance and authorized in the same manner as the doctor themselves. There is no explicitly separate HIPAA like law though if your handling of the information is limited to a particular subset of the information (e.g. knowing that a patient has an appointment with a renal specialist and knowing their address information but not knowing the topic of the appointment) then there may be a relaxation of the requirements - but patients are also blabby so usually they're treated like anyone else.

When it comes to AI note-taking or other AI services that interact with PII the exact same requirements and data handling standards need to be adhered to as if the tool was an employee with proper certified training (or, in the case of a tool, review and certification) and appropriate contracts and disclosures.

I can't really provide a more specific answer because the topic is so broad and while I'm familiar with the process from one end I am not an expert on the process in general.

Re: Re: I'm Begging You to Leave Your AI Note-Taker at Home

#73

Post by getpokedagain »

saaaaaam wrote: post #3

> Let's imagine for a second that the whole AI craze doesn't exist, but you still would want to real-time note-taker, what would you do? Indeed, you bring a literal third person to the table. That will just be sitting there, listening in on your conversation and writing everything down. That's what secretaries were, and this happened in pretty much every significant business meeting for a long long time.

Secretaries weren't invited to one on ones and interviews generally. This was something for only the highest places employees and not say something an IC would be used to.

Hence the engineers all going Wtf

Re: Re: I'm Begging You to Leave Your AI Note-Taker at Home

#74

Post by projektfu »

I use it in my professional appointments. If someone asked me not to, I'd turn it off. It makes the flow of the appointment much better than if I try to write the notes as we go, and if I don't write then and there, something will probably be left out.

Edited to add, I don't see what problem the OP has, unless they're just uncomfortable saying no.

Re: Re: I'm Begging You to Leave Your AI Note-Taker at Home

#75

Post by bad_username »

adamddev1 wrote: post #59

These AI Note-Takers can also mangle the summaries. A few weeks ago I read anecdotes here about a doctor getting completely wrong information about a patient, and a manager getting upset because he was depending on a summary of something a client never said or agreed to, but the AI summary said he did. These things are downright dangerous. Now come the replies saying, "as if human note-takers never made mistakes!"

Moreover, they capture all the smalltalk perfectly, but tend to plausibly mishear the parts that matter most - terminology, abbreviations, names of people. There's no mystery why this happens, of course, but the only transcript I trust is a transcript I personally checked by listening to the audio and fixing mistakes (doable at 1.75x speed, so not that bad). I catch outrageous mistakes sometimes, mistakes that completely change the meaning of what's being said (up to capturing the opposite of what's being said). So, all in all, even though modern speech2text models are really impressive, I am not sure the utility of _completely_ automated transcribers outweighs their dangers today.

Re: Re: I'm Begging You to Leave Your AI Note-Taker at Home

#76

Post by adamddev1 »

bad_username wrote: post #75
adamddev1 wrote: post #59

These AI Note-Takers can also mangle the summaries. A few weeks ago I read anecdotes here about a doctor getting completely wrong information about a patient, and a manager getting upset because he was depending on a summary of something a client never said or agreed to, but the AI summary said he did. These things are downright dangerous. Now come the replies saying, "as if human note-takers never made mistakes!"

Moreover, they capture all the smalltalk perfectly, but tend to plausibly mishear the parts that matter most - terminology, abbreviations, names of people. There's no mystery why this happens, of course, but the only transcript I trust is a transcript I personally checked by listening to the audio and fixing mistakes (doable at 1.75x speed, so not that bad). I catch outrageous mistakes sometimes, mistakes that comple…

It would be nice if they would at least say __unintelligable__ when they couldn't get things, but alas. I also notice it with YouTube auto generated subtitles and translations. They misrepresent SO much.

Re: Re: I'm Begging You to Leave Your AI Note-Taker at Home

#77

Post by throw-the-towel »

mc32 wrote: post #47
qwertox wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There could be a future, in which, during a date, each person granted their personal ai to take part in the conversation and also to exchange information among them, probably first to establish trustworthiness of the person in front of you.

So… it’s essentially computers entering into relationships on behalf of their human subscribers thus acting as a personality shim between each one of the people ensuring compatibility which will abruptly expire upon termination of the subscription…

Žižek gets real!

(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7xYO-VMZUGo; here he shares his opinion on what an ideal date would look like, which I'd rather not spoil)

Re: Re: I'm Begging You to Leave Your AI Note-Taker at Home

#78

Post by tuatoru »

dumpHero2 wrote: post #5

I've had medical students in the room when doctors do all kinds of checks. I somehow didn't have any reservations about that either.

On doctors, I read a substack by a doctor who stopped using an AI notetaker after trying it for a year. They weren't his notes, and there was too much extraneous detail.

Can't find it with a quick search, but the point of the essay was that making the notes by hand reinforced the essentials of each case in the doctor's mind, so they were there for the next appointment two weeks later.

Re: Re: I'm Begging You to Leave Your AI Note-Taker at Home

#79

Post by infinite_spin »

projektfu wrote: post #74

I use it in my professional appointments. If someone asked me not to, I'd turn it off. It makes the flow of the appointment much better than if I try to write the notes as we go, and if I don't write then and there, something will probably be left out. Edited to add, I don't see what problem the OP has, unless they're just uncomfortable saying no.

> I don't see what problem the OP has

OP's problem seems to be that there is an assumption that they are okay with being recorded, which is their very first argument in this article. What's more, with the attitude you apparently have, we should expect more incidents such as this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/comments/1um3anj/...

This whole "it makes the flow of the appointment much better" argument is one that I assume you'll use to justify this default position of recording others without clear consent. Clear consent, mind you, is receiving a "yes".. as opposed to saying "they didn't say no".

Consent doesn't happen just because someone didn't say no.

> If someone asked me not to, I'd turn it off

Case in point.. you've admitted to recording before receiving affirmative consent.

Re: Re: I'm Begging You to Leave Your AI Note-Taker at Home

#80

Post by customguy »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #67

Let's try the suggested advice and ask why five times. > Why do you even need an AI assistant here? To take notes on what we talked about. > Why do you want to do that? Because I want to retain the contents of this conversation, and I don't want to be distracted by note-taking. I want to be in the moment and also have a record of what we talked about for later. > Why do you want a record? Because I expect that what y…

"When have you arrived on this planet, and how did you come up with that name?"
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