Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

dw.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 891 posts

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#211

Post by panick21_ »

kuerbel wrote: post #26
schnitzelstoat wrote: post #5

I lived there for around 6 months like 15 years ago so perhaps it's changed a lot since then. But even as an Englishman, it was very different to home. I remember the supermarket was shut all Sunday and was only open until 12 on the Saturday, and it shut early in the week too (at like 5pm or 6pm or something?) so by the time I'd got the train back home from work it was already closed. I had to get up early every Satu…

I'm from Switzerland and live in Germany and I think it is very relaxed. Too relaxed for my liking to be honest. Sometimes the bins are still out in the evening??? What kind of anarchy is this ;-) Really, it's just what you are accustomed with. Stores closing on Sunday is a good thing I think, it makes it easier for families to have a day together and kind of resets the week. On Saturdays they are also open until 8pm…

Totally agree. Living in Berlin as Swiss person is crazy. You have shops open for so long. Late trains. Crazy partys and so on. Complete chaos with garbage and things like that.

I don't mind closed on Sunday but I wish we had a bit more stores open until a bit later. My parents were in health care so for me people working late or nights was always normal.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#212

Post by IncreasePosts »

tough wrote: post #148
malshe wrote: post #130

Here is my anecdote. I was in Germany recently and met with a South American woman. We briefly talked about our immigrant experiences. She is now a German citizen married to a German man. However, she said she can't identify as a German because nobody made her feel like one. By contrast, when I became an American citizen, my American friends (white and hispanic) insisted that they attend the naturalization ceremony.

The oldest american "citizens" are merely 250yo. Like the country. My point being, everyone in America is more or less an "immigrant" if you go back enough on their family tree, but the Native Americans.

In that case, the oldest German citizens are 155 years old. Like the country.

And by that logic even many native Americans are immigrants. The Apache and Sioux people were living up in canada by the Great lakes near the time Spaniards were on the continent and then started migrating south westward. Not to even mention all of the natives who were forcibly moved out of their original places or fled due to war/famine/etc

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#213

Post by [deleted] »

panick21_ wrote: post #196
tough wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The oldest american "citizens" are merely 250yo. Like the country. My point being, everyone in America is more or less an "immigrant" if you go back enough on their family tree, but the Native Americans.

Germany is a much newer country.

[deleted]

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#214

Post by rdtsc »

whateverboat wrote: post #21
parheric wrote: post #20

I've been here for a decade, and sadly I feel the issue is upward mobility for skilled workers. Unless you're working for an intl company, with ex-pats in positions of leadership, your chances of "getting ahead" are going to be limited, especially when you're competing against natives. The reason is sadly, the culture is very reserved and cautious, so as an "outsider" it's going to take A LONG time before you can be…

I think this is the biggest factor. Ambitious people who want to become rich do not have any opportunities in Germany. It is good for people who are content with a middling but comfortable life. That's why most ambitious people leave.

> Germany. It is good for people who are content with a middling but comfortable life. That's why most ambitious people leave.

Just curious how well does that work? I assume it’s being able to have a job, have a place to live, travel once a year. Medical care not tied to employment but hopefully easily accessible?

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#215

Post by zdragnar »

theLiminator wrote: post #179
rdbl27 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The United States. Despite the whirlwind of media to the contrary, the US is very welcoming to foreigners who follow the laws (that is, don't enter illegally) and make an effort to integrate by learning the language and customs. Much more than any other country on Earth.

> Much more than any other country on Earth. What about Canada?

Actually immigrating to Canada is quite a bit harder, from what I've heard.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#216

Post by [deleted] »

yorwba wrote: post #206
ikut3hva wrote: post #165

Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…

FWIW, for Blue Card holders, after 27 months the language requirement drops to A1 and even if you don't have a Blue Card after five years you could also get an EU permanent residence without language requirement: https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/living-... Though I would recommend setting yourself a target of some small (≈10) number of new words to learn every day and practice them during your com…

[deleted]

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#217

Post by IncreasePosts »

throw-the-towel wrote: post #209
panick21_ wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is a much newer country.

But a much older culture.

There was no unified "German" culture before Germany, so it doesn't make sense to talk about a "German" culture. Is it the northern maritime German? The southern Bavarian German? The Rhinelanders? The Swabians? Swiss germans? Northern Italian germans? Austrian Germans?

There was the German ethnicity, and a mosaic of Germanic languages.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#219

Post by SoftTalker »

socalgal2 wrote: post #121
4gotunameagain wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are definitely right that there are places in the US with great produce e.g. rural cali - much better than Germany's - but I still feel that on average there is higher quality food in Germany, less ultra processed food and a healthier food culture in general. Of course I haven't scoured the states (not even Germany for that matter), so.. :)

I don't know German produce but I'm pretty confident California, where I'm from, doesn't compare to Paris' farmers markets. The variety and quality there were way beyond all the farmers markets and produce stands I've been to over my life in California. That said, I certainly noticed a difference between California and Maryland, at least at the time. But, having experienced better I no longer consider California good…

In the US, a lot of "farmers" markets are just people selling wholesale produce they bought from a warehouse or maybe Costco or similar. There's not really any regulation (though I don't know about California, specifically).

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#220

Post by pimeys »

ikut3hva wrote: post #205
pimeys wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey. I'm with you there. My German also kind of sucks, but I've had a very successful 15 years in Berlin. The best part is how easy it is to pick jobs from the neighboring countries, like France. You pay taxes here, you commute maybe once a month to Paris and enjoy the prices and quietness of Berlin. We are lucky with my partner, and bought finally our own apartment. My partner, an American, is fluent with the langua…

Thank you! I skimmed through your text, and for a moment I thought we were working at the same company with its HQ in Paris, haha. Honestly, you brought up a valuable point that I didn’t cover in my original comment. Living in Germany has been one of the best ways to strengthen our relationship, especially when one of us couldn’t speak German and the other stepped in to help. Some people may see this as a fragile vul…

For me it's only about getting into the local scene more now, to learn the language. I kind of started to finally understand the German inefficiency, the distributed nature of the country and their culture. Now when we bought our apartment, the need to be part of the culture is bigger than ever. And at the same time I'm so busy for the past 10 years already, there's more work than ever in my life.

Just need to say stop one day, take a year off and go to language school.

P.S. I don't think it's the same company: the other devs are either in Paris or in Scandinavia.

Post reply on HN