[deleted]
Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again
201–210 of 891 posts
Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again
#202Here is my anecdote. I was in Germany recently and met with a South American woman. We briefly talked about our immigrant experiences. She is now a German citizen married to a German man. However, she said she can't identify as a German because nobody made her feel like one. By contrast, when I became an American citizen, my American friends (white and hispanic) insisted that they attend the naturalization ceremony.
>because nobody made her feel like one
I'm German. Very rarely is the issue that people will in principle treat her as foreign, there's sometimes still the stereotype that you "can never be German" but in most places in the country that's not my experience.
However what is important is that you need to elbow your way in. There's a saying "nur sprechenden Menschen kann geholfen werden*. (only people who speak up can be helped). If you think someone's gonna carry you in that's not gonna happen. That's the biggest mistake I see immigrants make. It's a private and personal culture but people respect someone from the outside who shows initiative, and nobody is easily offended by someone being assertive, that's seen as a good thing.
It's not the kind of place where you can just wait and people will read what you want off your face. Doesn't even work for Germans, if you feel left out, you'll have to stand up and say you want to be in.
Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again
#203>> About 60% of emigrants return to their home countries; 40% move on to destinations such as Spain, Switzerland, Italy and Croatia.
So how many emigrants stay in Germany?
Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
So your complaint is you wanted permanent residence in Germany but did not want to learn to speak German?
Most countries will grant PR without requiring a language proficiency. Assuming your immigration status is regular and you are a contributing member of society. Citizenship? Absolutely, you must speak the language. Residency? Not nearly as common.
> Most countries will grant PR without requiring a language proficiency
Hmm, is that really the case? Or perhaps you're confusing work visas with permanent residency? Most attractive destinations for immigrants usually require a language test for PR. Ignoring the United States and its dysfunctional immigration system, a language test is required or practically required almost anywhere there is a points-based system to obtain PR. The UK requires a language exam to be granted leave to remain. Canadian federal programs for PR require a language test result to even be considered for the Express Entry program. In Europe, Germany, Austria, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Italy also require it, and I'm sure there are more I'm not aware of.
Also, B1 is honestly a very basic level of proficiency with the language. It is really hard to be a productive member of society and interact with locals if you cannot speak at a B1 level.
Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again
#205Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…
Hey. I'm with you there. My German also kind of sucks, but I've had a very successful 15 years in Berlin. The best part is how easy it is to pick jobs from the neighboring countries, like France. You pay taxes here, you commute maybe once a month to Paris and enjoy the prices and quietness of Berlin. We are lucky with my partner, and bought finally our own apartment. My partner, an American, is fluent with the langua…
Thank you! I skimmed through your text, and for a moment I thought we were working at the same company with its HQ in Paris, haha.
Honestly, you brought up a valuable point that I didn’t cover in my original comment. Living in Germany has been one of the best ways to strengthen our relationship, especially when one of us couldn’t speak German and the other stepped in to help. Some people may see this as a fragile vulnerabilitye, but I see it as part of our growth.
Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again
#206Hi everyone I don’t usually comment on topics like this because there are so many biases and different perspectives involved. In the end, I believe only the person who has actually gone through the experience can truly understand it; otherwise, it often becomes just another judgment. We are an ASEAN family earning more than €200k gross annually (sorry for mentioning the TC, but there is a reason for it—please keep re…
FWIW, for Blue Card holders, after 27 months the language requirement drops to A1 and even if you don't have a Blue Card after five years you could also get an EU permanent residence without language requirement: https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/living-...
Though I would recommend setting yourself a target of some small (≈10) number of new words to learn every day and practice them during your commute or so. B1 is achievable in under a year with consistent practice. The official word list has 2400 entries: https://www.goethe.de/pro/relaunch/prf/de/Goethe-Zertifikat_...
Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again
#207I migrated to Germany 10+ years ago and I'm still here. Based on my limited experience, there are two big issues. First, things are bad : trains are getting worse every year, the highways are in disrepair (ask me about Bonn!), overloaded doctors, impossibly slow bureaucracy, economic crisis, growing inequality, housing crisis, and so on. If you're a fresh immigrant who cannot find a job in an economic crisis (aka "mo…
What has kept you from achieving C2, you’ve been there for 10y+
C1 can be achieved (I did it on 360 hours). C2 is academic level of language proficiency -- you have to either deliberately study for the difficult exam or get an university degree in German. Most of the Germans won't be able to pass a C2 test.
When a company sets C2 as a requirement, it can be interpreted as "must have a degree from German University".
Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
The oldest american "citizens" are merely 250yo. Like the country. My point being, everyone in America is more or less an "immigrant" if you go back enough on their family tree, but the Native Americans.
Germany is a much newer country.
Yes on paper but no
In the end Prussia ate Germany
Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
The oldest american "citizens" are merely 250yo. Like the country. My point being, everyone in America is more or less an "immigrant" if you go back enough on their family tree, but the Native Americans.
Germany is a much newer country.
But a much older culture.
Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
> is there any country an immigrant can move to, and better their lives as well as the locals' life/economy? The United States. > It seems the world is turning hostile to immigration in general - or maybe it is just the impression I get from the media? The world is turning hostile to immigration because the media (and social media sites) highlight and repeat the bad anecdotes, while barely mentioning the actual data…
What data suggests there is a positive outcome for the first world in integrating with the third world? Because my data suggests we're enthusiastically recreating the conditions that led to the Yugoslav civil wars. And even you know it; I saw your other comment before you deleted it. You are well aware that there is a tipping point, and expressed disappointment that natives are resistant to the path that leads to it.…
At least in Germany, we are in dire need of skilled workers of different kind.
Your argument seems weird, where exactly will the civil war happen, US, Europe, EU, both?