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China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

bbc.com

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Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#151

Post by mittensc »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #71
mittensc wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not whataboutism if you point out question was naive. (answer is the same everywhere and has always been the same) Inner circle leadership won't be prosecuted anywhere as long as their group holds some power. So, then, question is, how can this be improved?, can it be improved?

We improve it by ensuring the same people don't dominate the justice system and that prosecutions still happen whenever they don't. It was Biden's and his AG's job to do something about this and he fumbled.

There's nothing Biden could have done that would have prevented the american people from voting in Trump.

Trump was convicted, he still won. He probably would have won from jail as well.

So original question remains, what can be done?

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#153

Post by zamadatix »

malfist wrote: post #124
axus wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia is even tougher on corrupt oligarchs

No, Russia is tough on oligarchs that split from Putin. There is no non-corrupt oligarch.

I think they are meaning "the measure seems meaningless as it would imply Russia is even tougher on corruption" rather than "Russian leadership cares deeply about corruption".

It's a risky play to try to communicate over the internet to a bunch of us literalist nerds :p.

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#154

Post by elevation »

malfist wrote: post #122
b112 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're only hearing about the ones caught and punished. You have no proof of "Zero tolerance", or of what percentage of people are caught.

"Zero tolerance" and "we catch every criminal" are two unrelated ideas.

Yes -- and even a spectacular punishment does not establish the guilt of the recipient.

Some may be innocent (framed) or only partially guilty (scapegoat.) Other may have been known to be guilty all along and has only recently fallen out of favor.

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#155

Post by anjel »

paytonjjones wrote: post #116
nonethewiser wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He sees it as a challenge to his legitimacy and China’s power This right here is why “corruption” should be looked on with great skepticism. In an authoritarian government basic liberties we take for granted in the West are considered corruption. You know, like having a say in how people are governed. This is a high crime in a state with 1 party that cannot be replaced. In that way, “corruption” can mean “not being…

That may well be true, but that hardly applies to the current case of taking $325M in bribes

Intro to "moral hazard"

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#156

Post by VulgarExigency »

Sammi wrote: post #138
tyre wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xi has shown repeatedly that he’s serious about corruption. As others have noted, some of the highest civilian and military officials have been removed for it. Some sentenced to death. He sees it as a challenge to his legitimacy and China’s power, which, as you’d expect are the most important things to him; even if you take the most cynical view. Another timely example, because it is the World Cup, is the Chinese foo…

It's like you're so close to getting it. Xi is serious about "corruption" alright. It's just that in an authoritarian state "corruption" is really just used as a euphemism for illoyality.

If having corruption as an euphemism for "illoyality" means we get the same kind of public investment in infrastructure in the west as China does, then I'm all for it. Seems like here we only have the corruption part, except they call it lobbying and rub it in our faces.

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#157

Post by bryanlarsen »

Aeolun wrote: post #142
TrackerFF wrote: post #8

I sometimes see people "celebrate" this, with the rationale that China is cracking down on white-collar crimes and handing out sentences unheard of in the west. But, are these sort of things just examples of selective prosecution? Would the inner circle members of CCP leadership realistically face the same prosecution and sentencing, if they were to be caught doing the same?

> are these sort of things just examples of selective prosecution Maybe, but they hit the rich. All the selective prosecution in the US hits those least able to resist.

Counter-example: Sam-Bankman Fried. Biden's second biggest donor. Sentenced to 25 years in jail. Prosecuted even though it wasn't a clear cut case so there were excuses to hang a lack of prosecution on. No pardon.

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#158

Post by vkou »

palmotea wrote: post #65
NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're trying to approach from the wrong side it's not a question of "prosecute this one or the other person" - it's the choice between "prosecute this one or nobody" thus celebration that at least something got done

> But, are these sort of things just examples of selective prosecution? Would the inner circle members of CCP leadership realistically face the same prosecution and sentencing, if they were to be caught doing the same? > thus celebration that at least something got done Is it really something to celebrate if: 1. Someone got sentenced to death because they lost some internal power struggle, and bribery was falsely use…

#1 is a net-better outcome for everyone else than doing nothing.

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#159

Post by trencedamp »

pibaker wrote: post #137

Anyone who think this demonstrates the CCP's epicbacon commitment to anti corruption needs to ask themselves how did this man take so much bribe over 30 years and is only sentenced now. Is he dumb? Surely he is smart enough to know he committed a capital crime and yet he kept doing it. Perhaps he only kept doing it because he believed he could somehow get away with it? Perhaps he saw others pull off the same stunt? O…

Epicbacon? Is that some new slang or a typo

Re: China sentences official to death for taking $325M in bribes

#160

Post by Terr_ »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #132
mushufasa wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xi Jinping rose to power on a message of anti-corruption, and part of the reason he remains in power on an indefinite term is by presenting himself as the "only trusted" person to maintain anti-corruption amongst all the factions. While I'm sure he doesn't catch all corruption and the CCP overall has selective enforcement, the reason they do have measures like this is in large part because of Xi Jinping's specific re…

All presidents rise to power on a message of anti-corruption, they all clean house when they start in office but usually it falls off until the next president takes over. The problem Xi has is that now that he is now president for life, the house isn't getting cleaned in the usual way every 10 years; he has to do a corruption purge every so often or things will get grimey.

> All presidents rise to power on a message of anti-corruption

You mean in China specifically? Otherwise there are some pretty harsh counterexamples to that "all".

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