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Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

euronews.com

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Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#191

Post by pfannkuchen »

mossTechnician wrote: post #140
Aurornis wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “banned books” theme has become intentionally vague because it has become a marketing tool. That’s how we got to Dua Lipa doing a promotional photo op holding up books that can be purchased on Amazon and delivered to your Kindle to read immediately. Attaching the “banned” word to a book turns the purchase into an act of rebellion and a reason to talk about it, and the marketers are not going to waste that opportu…

Banning a book in a school district still signifies a form of authoritarianism. If someone is prevented from reading Maus[0] (or finding out they are in a cult, or a victim of domestic abuse), what is the effective difference to them between an authoritarian censoring it at the national level or the local one? [0]: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/holocaust-novel-maus-banne...

By that definition everywhere throughout all time is authoritarian.

Everywhere throughout all time is obviously not authoritarian, so the definition fails. Sorry, you are wrong.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#192

Post by grahamburger »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #191
mossTechnician wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning a book in a school district still signifies a form of authoritarianism. If someone is prevented from reading Maus[0] (or finding out they are in a cult, or a victim of domestic abuse), what is the effective difference to them between an authoritarian censoring it at the national level or the local one? [0]: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/holocaust-novel-maus-banne...

By that definition everywhere throughout all time is authoritarian. Everywhere throughout all time is obviously not authoritarian, so the definition fails. Sorry, you are wrong.

Authoritarian is an adjective. A thing can be authoritarian without all things being so. Yes, authoritarian things have always existed, and yes, a powerful religious group joining forces to make sure kids continue to hate themselves for being gay or trans is authoritarian.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#193

Post by buellerbueller »

an0malous wrote: post #131
throwaway27448 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words have more meanings than ever.... but last century produced wittgenstein; perfectly clear communication was always a polite fiction.

> Words have more meanings than ever Right, that's the problem > but last century produced wittgenstein; I don't think a philosopher who died 80 years ago is driving the change in how words are used in the last 20 years. It has more to do with the Internet and the cultural forces driving people to use hyperbole or make things up to make money in the attention market. This article wouldn't be on HN if it was just abou…

This usage of "banned" has been around for over a century, beginning in the USA when the USPS tried to interdict copies of Joyce's Ulysses. It further gained popularity when Tropic of Cancer and Lady Chatterly's Lover were challenged as obscenity in landmark 1950s-60s trials.

The first Banned Books Week happened in 1982, sponsored by the American Library Association.

However, yes, since 2021 there has been a big spike in the usage of the term "banned" books. Perhaps it was because around that time, there has been a massive push to challenge books (the ironically named "Moms for Liberty" though whose liberty they are protecting seems to be up for debate). 2023 saw >4,000 books challenged, whereas an average year between 2001-2020 saw ~275.

Perhaps if people stopped trying to police the reading habits of others' children, people would be less apt to talk about so called "banned" books?

I, for one, think that policing the reading habits of other people, and the micromanagement of libraries, is far more odious than the hyperbolic use of the word "banned." No one has to check out a book they don't want to.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#194

Post by buellerbueller »

7bit wrote: post #82
buellerbueller wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was to highlight the ridiculousness of the comment to which I was responding; glad it worked!

It didn't work. The comment wasn't ridiculous. Your reply was. But yes, if you want to flip thing around so you feel validated, be my guest.

Of course it worked. Any authoritarian intent on banning a book just could give the spurious reason that "the library does not have enough room" and then there is no censorship ever, according to the original post. See how childish that reasoning is?

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#195

Post by buellerbueller »

account42 wrote: post #100
buellerbueller wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is colloquially referred to as "banning." Sorry, you don't get to decide how others use language.

Used by those wanting to sell and profit from outrage about "banned" books to be precise.

See also: normal people who aren't afraid of books and think that banning them is silly.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#196

Post by mossTechnician »

carlosjobim wrote: post #180
mossTechnician wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning a book in a school district still signifies a form of authoritarianism. If someone is prevented from reading Maus[0] (or finding out they are in a cult, or a victim of domestic abuse), what is the effective difference to them between an authoritarian censoring it at the national level or the local one? [0]: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/holocaust-novel-maus-banne...

The effective difference is of course that they could easily get that book from somewhere else if they want it. If I'm prevented from bringing my dog into a restaurant, that doesn't mean that dogs are banned. It means I have to go to the restaurant on the other side of the street. If McDonald's doesn't serve any hard liquor it doesn't mean that alcohol has been banned in the country.

Is it really that cut and dry? A technically competent person might easily access a book while living in an authoritarian country, while someone who grows up in an authoritarian family in a "free" country might be prevented from reading a book both at home and at the school where their parents lobbied to ban the book. (It's quite hard to access suppressed information if you lack the knowledge it exists in the first place.)

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#197

Post by miyoji »

Aurornis wrote: post #148
mossTechnician wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning a book in a school district still signifies a form of authoritarianism. If someone is prevented from reading Maus[0] (or finding out they are in a cult, or a victim of domestic abuse), what is the effective difference to them between an authoritarian censoring it at the national level or the local one? [0]: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/holocaust-novel-maus-banne...

We "ban" things from school kids all the time, though: Pornography, gambling, smoking, alcohol, R-rated movies. Dua Lipa wasn't doing a photo op with Maus . In the photos she's posing with modern books that are still being promoted by their publishers. I'm not familiar with all of them, but a quick search shows one of them is not appropriate for elementary schools because it includes essays debating which sexual acts…

> one of them is not appropriate for elementary schools because it includes essays debating which sexual acts are appropriate for feminists to perform and other adult topics. Why is it "authoritarianism" to say that a book like that doesn't belong in my kids' school library?

Who exactly are you to say what is or isn't appropriate for elementary school libraries?

It's authoritarian because it's about people with authority (parents, teachers), telling people without (students) what kinds of media they are and aren't allowed to consume, which is about controlling which ideas they're allowed to think about. You don't like children thinking or learning about sex, but there is no moral or rational reason for that. You just don't like it, and you wish to use your authority to impose your preferences on people who have no power to stop you. That's authoritarian.

And no, I don't think parents should be able to control their children's media diets, the idea that parents get to control their children is itself authoritarian. You don't own your kids.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#198

Post by anthk »

mossTechnician wrote: post #162
Aurornis wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We "ban" things from school kids all the time, though: Pornography, gambling, smoking, alcohol, R-rated movies. Dua Lipa wasn't doing a photo op with Maus . In the photos she's posing with modern books that are still being promoted by their publishers. I'm not familiar with all of them, but a quick search shows one of them is not appropriate for elementary schools because it includes essays debating which sexual acts…

I don't understand the scare quotes: per my previous reply, is a ban not a ban regardless of who does it? Maus has nudity and curse words; that's why it was banned in Tennessee. 1984 has multiple sex scenes - the well-funded Christian publication PluggedIn[0] rates it 18+. Two things can be true at the same time: a book can be both banned in one place, and used to promote someone's brand in another. Somebody in a dee…

In Europe every kid over 13 would buy both with no issues at all. 1984's sex scenes are so-so and something that just happens in the background like nothing.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#199

Post by AlexandrB »

miyoji wrote: post #197
Aurornis wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We "ban" things from school kids all the time, though: Pornography, gambling, smoking, alcohol, R-rated movies. Dua Lipa wasn't doing a photo op with Maus . In the photos she's posing with modern books that are still being promoted by their publishers. I'm not familiar with all of them, but a quick search shows one of them is not appropriate for elementary schools because it includes essays debating which sexual acts…

> one of them is not appropriate for elementary schools because it includes essays debating which sexual acts are appropriate for feminists to perform and other adult topics. Why is it "authoritarianism" to say that a book like that doesn't belong in my kids' school library? Who exactly are you to say what is or isn't appropriate for elementary school libraries? It's authoritarian because it's about people with autho…

You should think this through. The logical endpoint is that all age based content restrictions are "authoritarian".

So it should be ok to stock movies like Martyrs[1] or Men Behind the Sun[2] in elementary school libraries, because who are parents and teachers to decide whether seeing a woman flayed to death or a child vivisected is something that a 6 year old should be allowed to see?

My real takeaway here is that you probably don't have children.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_(2015_film)

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Behind_the_Sun

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#200

Post by anthk »

GuB-42 wrote: post #173
caseysoftware wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

THAT would be awesome bravery and freedom: "Come and take it" has been powerful before.

I don't know the law in Portugal but I will assume the principles are similar to other western European countries. If you have book that are actually banned in these countries, I don't think many people will call it awesome. Books are typically banned for: - copyright: not really a ban, but the copyright holder simply doesn't want it to be published the way you want it to be, doing it anyway is just piracy. It can be…

> Most other European countries have similar laws to some degree.

Except for historical or drama purposes. In the Basque Country you could buy tons of books about Nazis, Franco, ETA and whatnot.

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