Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

nwo.nl

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 271 posts

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#211

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

wolvoleo wrote: post #99
dataflow wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe's problems: [...] Would it be silly to add "general lack of air conditioning" to that list? I imagine at some point it inevitably stops being a joke and starts being a real problem. Have we reached that point yet? [1] [2] [1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-frances-june-heatwave... [2] https://www.dw.com/en/heat-wave-european-countries-report-37...

The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point. As everything that comes out of republicans these days it's misdirected and purely politically motivated. And it's none of their business anyway. They're just trying to stir up extreme-right sentiment here. Yes many houses don't have AC. We didn't need it so much until climate change (of which the US is one of the…

>purely politically motivated

I'm certain you yourself are completely free of political motivations ;-)

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#212

Post by jltsiren »

drnick1 wrote: post #172
jltsiren wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US spends less on academic research than the OECD average. See, for example, https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsb202326/academic-r-d-internatio... From a European perspective, the most noticeable sign of this is the scarcity of postdocs at American universities. Some fields and individual labs are better funded, but on the average, the universities lean heavily on students doing the actual research.

Because postdocs are basically slavery. The expectation here is that after a top Ph.D. (which tend to be longer than in Europe), you get a real academic job (assistant professor).

You have a few misconceptions.

The actual expectation is that after finishing PhD, you take a journeyman position, where you can practice the skills needed in an academic career and gradually gain independence while being mentored by a senior academic. Then, if you were successful, you get a permanent position. The postdoc path fails, as there is no clear path to a permanent position. The assistant professor path fails, because the funding system requires you to become a manager without sufficient experience.

European PhDs vary in duration. The most common system is 3+2+4 years for bachelor's + master's + PhD, which is not that different from the American 4+5 years for bachelor's + PhD. (Those are nominal durations, and actual studies usually take longer.)

In most European countries, a postdoc is a nice enough middle-class job. If you are interested in an academic career after finishing PhD, you have good chances of getting a postdoc position. The real bottleneck comes after the postdoc stage, as faculty positions are scarce in most European universities.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#213

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

palata wrote: post #72
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe is in its own set of problems and it is not in the same situation that US used to be after WW2 (only major economy not affected by bombing). Both Japan and South Korea were equally devastated and yet they managed to build world-class technology industries in the subsequent decades. I think the problems with Europe and the EU are a lot deeper than that.

A lot deeper than active wars and energy supply issues??? Europe's economy has been slowing down since 2007, which is the peak of conventional oil. The problem of Europe is that is doesn't have access to abundant energy like the US does. The US likes to think that they have a better economy because they are smarter/work harder, but the reality is simple: abundant energy makes the economy.

>The US likes to think that they have a better economy because they are smarter/work harder, but the reality is simple: abundant energy makes the economy.

The most valuable American companies are not exactly in energy-intensive industries:

https://companiesmarketcap.com/

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#214

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

WarmWash wrote: post #140
pjerem wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you measure economical performance with PIB per capita, yeah, for sure, US has a better economy. If you measure with anything else useful like (healthy) life expectancy or happiness level, state of the democracy, etc... like if you think the the economy must serve the people and not the other way, I'd say Europe is way more successful despite the real issues. Actually, I'm baffled at how US performs poorly for the…

>Actually, I'm baffled at how US performs poorly for their people given they have abundant energy. You feel that way because the media (and the internet) is hyper focused on the bottom 50% of Americans. The households with 2 people earning If you look at the higher brackets (you have to look because "Americans in the 75th percentile live great" is not a clickable story) America is a better place to live if you work a…

>You feel that way because the media (and the internet) is hyper focused on the bottom 50% of Americans. The households with 2 people earning Poverty in the US is similar to poverty in Sweden, according to this dataset:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/poverty-share-on-less-tha...

But the median American earns far higher wages than the median Swede:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-median-income

I think there is just a lot of misinformation out there. Americans love to complain, and other countries love to criticize the US. These effects create systematic misconceptions which no one bothers to fact-check.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#215

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

pjerem wrote: post #87
palata wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot deeper than active wars and energy supply issues??? Europe's economy has been slowing down since 2007, which is the peak of conventional oil. The problem of Europe is that is doesn't have access to abundant energy like the US does. The US likes to think that they have a better economy because they are smarter/work harder, but the reality is simple: abundant energy makes the economy.

If you measure economical performance with PIB per capita, yeah, for sure, US has a better economy. If you measure with anything else useful like (healthy) life expectancy or happiness level, state of the democracy, etc... like if you think the the economy must serve the people and not the other way, I'd say Europe is way more successful despite the real issues. Actually, I'm baffled at how US performs poorly for the…

>Actually, I'm baffled at how US performs poorly for their people given they have abundant energy. Norway and Iceland also have abundant energy and their people are seeing the benefits.

Norway produces oil at Saudi Arabia levels per capita:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/oil-prod-per-capita?count...

The US has about 70x the population of Norway, hence far lower per-capita production.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#216

Post by logicchains »

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #184
zyxzevn wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of complaining from small companies and startups. The taxing system is slowly becoming communism (I have no better word). And they also are stopping farming, based on bad ideas. I tried to get into fundamental research, but disliked the burocratic approach in Dutch universities.

The taxing system becoming communism? I think you may need to recalibrate that a bit. https://factually.co/fact-checks/politics/democratic-sociali...

From your link:

>Communism, in its classical sense, seeks public or common ownership of the means of production and the abolition of private ownership of major productive assets

That's the eventual mathematical outcome of the new Dutch tax on unrealized capital gains, which combined with the fact that the tax system treats inflation as real gains means that over time the state will come to own all productive assets.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#217

Post by BeetleB »

mrguyorama wrote: post #208
BeetleB wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are blocked because as a renter you don't have the power to. And his point is that in most apartments in the US, you are not blocked because you're a renter.

>you are not blocked because you're a renter. You are wrong. Nothing in the US stops a landlord from preventing you from installing an AC and plenty do, for any reason they want. My previous US apartment banned window mount air conditioners. I was stuck with a "mobile" AC unit that could barely handle a little humidity. Even someone in a "Historic" property in Europe that isn't allowed to touch anything would have th…

> You are wrong. Nothing in the US stops a landlord from preventing you from installing an AC and plenty do, for any reason they want.

In my state, they cannot. I legally have the right to install a window AC unit as long as I'm not doing any damage or violating a safety guideline.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#218

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

pjerem wrote: post #201
WarmWash wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Actually, I'm baffled at how US performs poorly for their people given they have abundant energy. You feel that way because the media (and the internet) is hyper focused on the bottom 50% of Americans. The households with 2 people earning If you look at the higher brackets (you have to look because "Americans in the 75th percentile live great" is not a clickable story) America is a better place to live if you work a…

Sorry but I don't share your view. A society where the bottom 50% can't live a decent life is just dysfunctional. I don't care which country is best for the riches (and actually, Europe is good for the riches), I care that the economy is there to allow everyone to live a decent and meaningful life.

This perspective implies that you should be vigilant to keep out poor or unskilled immigrants who might struggle to afford the quality of life you require for citizens.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#219

Post by ericmay »

nyeah wrote: post #66
ericmay wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US we sometimes use the term “bribe” in morally neutral or even positive situations. It just means giving someone money or a different incentive to convince them to do something they weren’t going to do or were undecided but considering doing and the extra incentive is the catalyst for making the decision. We also have the legal concept of a bribe but the OP probably wasn’t using it in the legal sense - I.e. a…

Sometimes. But bribery is also a crime, so using that word invites comment.

It's called slang in the United States.

Someone might say "dang they absolutely murdered that slice (I'm watching Wimbledon right now)". Nobody thinks well murdering is a crime, I need to go and comment on how the word murder is used inappropriately here.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#220

Post by BeetleB »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #197
BeetleB wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the person you're responding to, but I've spent almost 2 decades outside the US. Sorry, his perspective matches my experience much more than yours.

Why would you apologize for that? Name one claim I've made that is impeached by your "experience"? Doubtless many others have shared your experiences. Good for you. It's not really the point. My questions as to the OP I was responding to of a personal nature were quite obviously rhetorical. The point was to perhaps suggest some introspection. Not everyone's experiences are the same. The more substantive questions hav…

> Doubtless many others have shared your experiences. Good for you. It's not really the point.

You have made multiple statements questioning his reality:

> I just don't really buy it. For someone who lived overseas the narrowness of your perspective is rather alarming.

> Have you ever lived overseas? Honestly you sound delusional.

> This pretty much confirms you have never lived overseas lol.

I'm pointing out that his reality matches my reality living overseas.

Post reply on HN