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98% isn't much

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Re: 98% isn't much

#201

Post by Eridrus »

throwaway173738 wrote: post #179
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, when I read the article I thought "Great, more paternalistic advice that pretends we have infinite resources/time/money." Anyone who has ever done website or mobile development knows there is a huge array of browsers and platforms, and supporting the very long tail of configurations is sometimes nearly impossible, let alone almost never cost effective. When I last ran some web apps, we'd see substantial numbers…

He wasn’t actually giving a blanket directive. The article was suggesting that you think about whether 98% is actually good in your use case by doing the math and thinking.

Yeah, but the guy writing the article seems to be bad at math and thinking.

Can I imagine a venue kicking out 2% of their former clients on some criteria? Absolutely yes.

Kicking out 2% of website visitors may still be totally reasonable if the cost to serve them is meaningful, or if they are less than 2% of revenue.

His defense for 98% being bad is that some CSS thing people were arguing about only had 70% coverage on his website.

Our b2b dashboard didn't support Safari for a while at all and it was entirely not an issue because everyone had a simple workaround to just use Chrome and the dashboard wasn't really the main product.

Re: 98% isn't much

#202

Post by anoneng »

esrauch wrote: post #112
jollyllama wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a choice by the people who make websites and browsers that forces the average person to buy a new computer. If we all cared about letting people use old computers, this wouldn't be the case.

I wouldn't conflate old computers and old browsers. I still use an over 10 year old laptop and it still has a latest browser.

Right. That problem is bloat, not lack of legacy support. Adding (already bloated) legacy support to already bloated software just makes bloat worse.

Re: 98% isn't much

#203

Post by pif »

The author is confusing visitors with customers. Refusing entry to 2% visitors? No, no! Forgetting about non-interesting 2% visitors? Not even a blink!

Re: 98% isn't much

#204

Post by anoneng »

robalni wrote: post #148
wccrawford wrote: post #25

Alternatively, 98% is plenty . If your business plan requires you to capitalize on more than 98% of the market, it's already a failure. It'll never happen. As always, it's an "it depends" situation. If your userbase is largely luddites, then maybe you need to support 10+ year old browsers that can't be updated. Otherwise, you can probably just worry about people who are using computers new enough to actually update t…

This is not just a question of browser age. I use a browser that had its last release less than a year ago. It doesn't do CSS, it doesn't do javascript and I love it. I also love to be able to use the websites I need.

I love lynx as much as anyone but it is ludicrous to expect webapp developers to support no script and no CSS.

Re: 98% isn't much

#205

Post by robalni »

anoneng wrote: post #204
robalni wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not just a question of browser age. I use a browser that had its last release less than a year ago. It doesn't do CSS, it doesn't do javascript and I love it. I also love to be able to use the websites I need.

I love lynx as much as anyone but it is ludicrous to expect webapp developers to support no script and no CSS.

Expect is not what I do but I fight for it.

Re: 98% isn't much

#206

Post by alternatex »

londons_explore wrote: post #72
bradleybuda wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s very difficult for the average person to use a ten year old browser; in fact I’d offer that the only way to use a ten year old browser is to be an expert and do so intentionally.

There are plenty of people with old android phones with no free disk space using ancient browsers. There are plenty of people still using windows 10 with updates turned off or wedged for whatever reason. These people just use the sites that work. They aren't computer experts, and might not even realise why half the internet doesn't work - they just think that's the way things are.

I've a Xiaomi Mi 6 phone (2017 model) that I still use as a fridge-mounted shopping list and it's using the latest version of Chrome. I think it would be quite the stretch to find a user using a 10 year old browser.

Re: 98% isn't much

#207

Post by thesuitonym »

k6hkUZtLUM wrote: post #198

Serving a website is different than serving food or providing safety features. Web design can use progressive enhancement and detect available features to use as they are available. With a website, you can have the "real" layout, but when someone is blocking your JS, you can fallback and still provide content. We won't get every mobile application working on old browsers, but we can offer something to the end user. E…

The problem is webdevs don't do that. They say "98% is fine" and then don't program any fallback, or worse, actively block users that don't meet 100% compatibility.

Re: 98% isn't much

#208

Post by anoneng »

k6hkUZtLUM wrote: post #198

Serving a website is different than serving food or providing safety features. Web design can use progressive enhancement and detect available features to use as they are available. With a website, you can have the "real" layout, but when someone is blocking your JS, you can fallback and still provide content. We won't get every mobile application working on old browsers, but we can offer something to the end user. E…

The whole premise of the article is fallacious analogies and mixed metaphors.

Yes a restaurant that poisons 2% of its customers is a bad restaurant. A restaurant that has nothing for people who are strict kosher, strict halal, strict vegan, or have severe multiple food allergies is not a bad restaurant. There may be 5% of people who simply can’t eat there because the kitchen cooks pork and there’s peanut shells on the ground but their idiosyncratic requirements don’t dictate the experience of the other 95%. Or 90%, or what have you.

Re: 98% isn't much

#209

Post by phillipcarter »

thesuitonym wrote: post #207
k6hkUZtLUM wrote: post #198

Serving a website is different than serving food or providing safety features. Web design can use progressive enhancement and detect available features to use as they are available. With a website, you can have the "real" layout, but when someone is blocking your JS, you can fallback and still provide content. We won't get every mobile application working on old browsers, but we can offer something to the end user. E…

The problem is webdevs don't do that. They say "98% is fine" and then don't program any fallback, or worse, actively block users that don't meet 100% compatibility.

Probably because that extra 2% (or whatever figure) isn’t terrible valuable in the first place. Sometimes the best answer is “they’ll need to update their stuff”.

Re: 98% isn't much

#210

Post by explodingwaffle »

dataviz1000 wrote: post #175
wccrawford wrote: post #25

Alternatively, 98% is plenty . If your business plan requires you to capitalize on more than 98% of the market, it's already a failure. It'll never happen. As always, it's an "it depends" situation. If your userbase is largely luddites, then maybe you need to support 10+ year old browsers that can't be updated. Otherwise, you can probably just worry about people who are using computers new enough to actually update t…

Former chef here (2 Michelin starred restaurants). 5% is beyond plenty; it is awesome! > works for 98% of the population, that means that it won’t work for ~150 million people If I can only cook for 70 people a night, I most likely can't serve the ~150 million people who do not have access to modern browsers. And, those who do have access to those browsers and choose not use those browsers likely will not enjoy my fo…

man, HN is awesome
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