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Learning to code is still worthwhile

stevekrouse.com

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Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#91

Post by snek_case »

psadri wrote: post #17

Learning to code = understanding a problem, breaking it down into small, manageable pieces, putting all the pieces back together. Debugging. Iterating towards better metrics, etc. All these are amazingly valuable skills/mindsets that can be highly portable to other "problem solving" domains.

Yeah I mean, if you don't know how to code, you just know how to prompt, you have no idea how to tell what's a good solution vs what isn't. The best you can do is have the model figure it out for you. You also have no idea how to design a good API, or how to break up a system into modules, etc.

The issue is probably that many managers can't really tell the difference between a good programmer and a vibe-coder. The vibe coder ships a lot of PRs. Maybe they themselves ship some vibe-coded PRs. They hate the idea that programmers might know better than them.

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#92

Post by JumpCrisscross »

StilesCrisis wrote: post #77
ekidd wrote: post #65

As a professional programmer entering the final third of an enjoyable career, I would now place "learning to code" in the same category as "making a living as a poet." As in, it's truly enjoyable art and some people appreciate it, but you'd better plan for a day job. Senior people who already know how to code are doing OKish for now, from the data I've seen, but the job is increasingly babysitting models like they we…

The babysitting work would still be impossible if you didn't actually know how to code.

> babysitting work would still be impossible if you didn't actually know how to code

It will be fewer and fewer people with, probably, deeper and deeper knowledge (and job security and compensation to boot).

Poet is a bad comparison. But something like low-level semiconductor physics or assembly is closer to the mark.

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#93

Post by koe123 »

ekidd wrote: post #65

As a professional programmer entering the final third of an enjoyable career, I would now place "learning to code" in the same category as "making a living as a poet." As in, it's truly enjoyable art and some people appreciate it, but you'd better plan for a day job. Senior people who already know how to code are doing OKish for now, from the data I've seen, but the job is increasingly babysitting models like they we…

Can I ask what data you are seeing?

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#94

Post by bluefirebrand »

embedding-shape wrote: post #31
altruios wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most compelling reason to learn to code is exactly the same reason to read lots of books (fiction or otherwise). It exercises your brain. A brain that can easily sort, parse, and understand basic logic and control flow is more resistant to propaganda and influence. Which is the same benefit a lot of reading does, but for different avenues of thinking (more worldviews exposed to -> more critical thought of each of…

But that in itself also isn't compelling to lots of people, why should they care about "exercising your brain"? I do it because it's fun, probably the most common reason I do anything, or because it feels nice. But probably exercising my brain for me is fun and makes me feel nice, this isn't true for everyone, sadly.

> But that in itself also isn't compelling to lots of people, why should they care about "exercising your brain"

I just sort of assume people don't want to be stupid and ignorant, but maybe I'm wrong

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#95

Post by ern »

bad_haircut72 wrote: post #38
adamddev1 wrote: post #33

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't AI agents replacing the coding mostly being done on the outer layers of development? I mean, end user applications, apps, dashboards, business applications? On this "outer crust" people can maybe tolerate things with 99% accuracy, or bloated code. A vibe coded app can be argued to be "good enough." (Even then, look at the disaster that Microsoft apps have become post AI adop…

This type of comment retroactively assigns human written code a quality which it has never had. "No one wants to build on code that is 99% accurate or bloated" - my friend have you ever used Windows??

2016: "the median developer is too stupid to do FizzBuzz correctly"

2026: "the median developer is a craftsman whose work is being replaced by AI slop"

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#96

Post by DrewADesign »

StilesCrisis wrote: post #77
ekidd wrote: post #65

As a professional programmer entering the final third of an enjoyable career, I would now place "learning to code" in the same category as "making a living as a poet." As in, it's truly enjoyable art and some people appreciate it, but you'd better plan for a day job. Senior people who already know how to code are doing OKish for now, from the data I've seen, but the job is increasingly babysitting models like they we…

The babysitting work would still be impossible if you didn't actually know how to code.

Right, but if things progress as they promised, it will require far fewer people to do the same work, which means the industry already has all the people it so need for at least a couple decades. That’s what happened with tool and die guys when offshoring kicked off, and now they’re scrambling to get apprentices because the last of the OG ones are retiring. There were decades that pretty much nobody (relative to prior eras) got trained for that work.

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#97

Post by [deleted] »

ekidd wrote: post #65

As a professional programmer entering the final third of an enjoyable career, I would now place "learning to code" in the same category as "making a living as a poet." As in, it's truly enjoyable art and some people appreciate it, but you'd better plan for a day job. Senior people who already know how to code are doing OKish for now, from the data I've seen, but the job is increasingly babysitting models like they we…

[deleted]

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#98

Post by [deleted] »

p1necone wrote: post #26

Anecdotally, the people who I know who were not particularly good developers pre-llms still manage to produce bad code even using flagship models now. I think having solid knowledge/understanding of good architecture and general practices is still crucial, and it's easy to forget that the foundational knowledge and instinct you take for granted now actually took a lot of time and effort to learn when you were less ex…

[deleted]

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#99

Post by fragmede »

wasting_time wrote: post #18

The era of LLMs is similar to when Magic was discovered in the 1400s. The layperson may be able to get ahold of a spellbook, but without Understanding it comes with high risk of turning your niece into a frog. Whereas Wizards can cast increasingly powerful spells that build on each other, and make Art.

Knowing someone's true name in the wizarding world meant to hold power over them. Though if you know someone's account name on Reddit or only fans or Snapchat, it's kind of the same thing.

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#100

Post by coupdejarnac »

fragmede wrote: post #80
gonzalohm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I'm not saying that you should go back to code in assembly. But, come on, you can surely dedicate 30 minutes of your time to read how a CPU works... Just have curiosity would be my advice

At the expense of what, though? That's 30 minutes not spent learning about the business, or talking to customers, or to your kids. Or watching the World Cup. Or reading Hacker News.

The extra 30 minutes will be spent chatting with the AI as if it's your best friend.
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