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Learning to code is still worthwhile

stevekrouse.com

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Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#61

Post by altruios »

embedding-shape wrote: post #31
altruios wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most compelling reason to learn to code is exactly the same reason to read lots of books (fiction or otherwise). It exercises your brain. A brain that can easily sort, parse, and understand basic logic and control flow is more resistant to propaganda and influence. Which is the same benefit a lot of reading does, but for different avenues of thinking (more worldviews exposed to -> more critical thought of each of…

But that in itself also isn't compelling to lots of people, why should they care about "exercising your brain"? I do it because it's fun, probably the most common reason I do anything, or because it feels nice. But probably exercising my brain for me is fun and makes me feel nice, this isn't true for everyone, sadly.

Besides the reward of a more capable brain, the reduced effects/risks of dementia, the contrarian need to argue, the altruistic desire to help neighbors with difficult problems, the selfish urge to daydream... yeah, there are people for whom none of those are motivating factors.

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#63

Post by somesortofthing »

abc_lisper wrote: post #20
somesortofthing wrote: post #13

I think pieces like this miss the forest for the trees. Software is the bottleneck for a vast array of economic activities. Attention from intelligent people is most of the rest. Both are mostly-commoditized already and are just waiting around for technological diffusion and the closing of the RSI loop. Unless you're doing so as a hobby with no expectation of returns, I'm not sure what, if anything, is worth learning…

I don't know how one would build anything without knowing. If it was true, I would be building a competitor to Anthropic right now.

You build without knowing by delegating to a system that extrapolates what it knows about you and what you want, and is able to execute on that to deliver faster, better, and more completely than you ever could. You'll live as a ball of intent and values, observing in wonder as everything you desire springs up around you before you know you want it. You could choose not to live like this of course, but it would be like driving a DIY go-kart on the highway - you'll fall behind and get in others' way, and the rest of society will treat you accordingly.

That's the optimistic case, anyway.

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#65

Post by ekidd »

As a professional programmer entering the final third of an enjoyable career, I would now place "learning to code" in the same category as "making a living as a poet." As in, it's truly enjoyable art and some people appreciate it, but you'd better plan for a day job.

Senior people who already know how to code are doing OKish for now, from the data I've seen, but the job is increasingly babysitting models like they were junior contributors.

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#66

Post by al_borland »

psadri wrote: post #17

Learning to code = understanding a problem, breaking it down into small, manageable pieces, putting all the pieces back together. Debugging. Iterating towards better metrics, etc. All these are amazingly valuable skills/mindsets that can be highly portable to other "problem solving" domains.

Steve Jobs used to say that everyone should learn to program, because it teaches you how to think.

https://youtu.be/BRTOlPdyPYU

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#67

Post by platevoltage »

hollowturtle wrote: post #50

The very fact we need to discuss that it's a sign that we lost and slop has won. Learning to code it's a journey that never ends, after almost 15+ years I feel like I still learn and that my code sucks, if I delegate everything to the slot machine I feel like I'm being retro actively turned into a junior, thanks but no thanks. I'll still use LLMs and Agents the best I can but coding is mine

I have this mindset too. I use LLMs too, but strictly as a helper. nothing goes in my code that I don't understand, or that doesn't follow the style of the rest of the project. It's a great research tool, although I can already feel my documentation reading skills diminishing slightly.

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#69

Post by platevoltage »

avaer wrote: post #12

Those are not compelling arguments. If the best we've got for convincing people to learn to code is that it's like math notation (the most hated part of math for the uninitiated), or pretty like a violin (useless for a new grad), then coding is in serious trouble. IMO a better argument is it helps you "think like a computer". But if you wanted to learn that there are many video games I'd recommend mastering instead o…

Programmers should learn ASM, or at least have a surface level knowledge of it, the same way electrical engineers should know how a vacuum tube works.

Re: Learning to code is still worthwhile

#70

Post by bigstrat2003 »

dyauspitr wrote: post #19
tcoff91 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like no matter the model, it's going to be more powerful when used by a skilled software engineer vs a layperson.

For a little while. But we’re already at the point where a layperson can feed back errors into the LLM well enough for most apps for it to fix the problems and those are the errors it misses, it gets most of them on its own.

We most certainly are not at that point.
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