I would love to see Elm adopt an effects system as an answer to React hooks.
Road to Elm 1.0
121–130 of 192 posts
Re: Road to Elm 1.0
#122I’m trying out foldkit.dev now. It lacks Elms elegance but you have access to ecosystem: it’s just Typescript. Here’s their Elm comparison: https://foldkit.dev/elm/foldkit-vs-elm-side-by-side
Re: Road to Elm 1.0
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the Elm definition of simplicity? Genuinely asking, because the concept of simplicity is very vague and overloaded in programming.
You really need to use it to see the light. It's like reading about programming and actually programming. You don't understand programming until you actually program. You won't understand why elm is simple until you actually use elm to the point of internal understanding. I think doing this is much harder nowadays given that most people would likely use an LLM to do most of the coding.
said it better than me.
Re: Road to Elm 1.0
#124We had some big Elm proponents who were trying hard to convince the company to use Elm, including doing proof of concept buildouts in Elm. Then the 0.18 to 0.19 Elm drama happened: The core team restricted the ability for users to do any native JavaScript interop, which broke every Elm app that needed any functionality that wasn’t in the core library. It split the Elm fans into two groups: Those who were upset that t…
It's amazing that business would tolerate paying staff to build products on one person's prototype hobby language.
Re: Road to Elm 1.0
#125I think of Elm more as an incredibly influential research language these days. It's very focused, there's no public roadmap or official support and the leadership (which is far as I can tell is just Evan) is uninterested in most (any?) community building or core team building. But MAN is it nice to work in. This has resulted in several forks/spin-offs. At the recent Gleam conference, Louis Pilfold joked that every El…
I'm one of those. I extended the language to support a bunch of niceties (essentially supporting a proper error channel and dependency injection through erasable sum types).
Elm is a nice language, but Ewan has no interest in building anything truly useful and the whole administration of the language is s disaster.
Re: Road to Elm 1.0
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
your definition of dead is elms definition of stability, I think :D haha javascriptland really warps peoples minds on stability and project-liveness
You are not entirely wrong, but there’s still a difference between being dead and very stable. Among the languages that compile to JS, I would look at ClojureScript as the prime example of stability rather than Elm. I mean Elm has removed features breaking compat; ClojureScript doesn’t do that.
> ClojureScript doesn’t do that.
I remember when Rich Hickey was asked "what feature of Clojure you regret and would like to remove?", he said: "None. Doing that would break stuff for people".
Re: Road to Elm 1.0
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Weird not to mention Elm's massive breaking change that killed the project?
How does that bear on my comment?
Well, you're suggesting a reason to choose Elm is stability - a lack of breaking changes. But Elm is actually notorious for its wildly unpopular, dramatic, community-fracturing breaking changes. Backwards compatibility is not a concern for them.
It's a little tricky though, because the comment you were replying to was talking about the lack of updates. And in that sense, Elm is now very stable - no breaking changes (or any changes at all!) in seven years and counting.
(Although, for all the complaints about the React ecosystem: you can still write class-style React components, even though they were effectively deprecated when hooks were introduced just over seven years ago.)
OTOH, we have this blog post suggesting development on Elm is kicking up again. Which means more breaking changes might be incoming.
Re: Road to Elm 1.0
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think LLM‘s might increase elm adoption because it is the ideal language for an LLM right now Yes but no? It really just depends on the amount of elm in the training data and rlhf. I agree that structured frameworks/languages have codebases more similar to one another and that would ease generation. But that alone won't work and usually dev adoption is a total discourse per se
That's not why Elm is an ideal language for LLMs: it's because, if it compiles, it's most likely working software. Agentic workflows have gotten significantly better over the last year, so LLMs using languages like Elm, Haskell, or even Rust have an amazing feedback loop where even lower quality models can keep trying until things compile.
can keep failing til you're tired of having the agent running in loops, as I said it doesn't matter, agent tools are more effective with models trained with a lot of elm examples
Re: Road to Elm 1.0
#129I think of Elm more as an incredibly influential research language these days. It's very focused, there's no public roadmap or official support and the leadership (which is far as I can tell is just Evan) is uninterested in most (any?) community building or core team building. But MAN is it nice to work in. This has resulted in several forks/spin-offs. At the recent Gleam conference, Louis Pilfold joked that every El…
The nicest thing of Elm is how much it feels like Haskell. Have built some fun things with Elm years ago. The second nicest thing with Elm is the philosophy of if it compiles it works. And to be honest you can get that same feeling with most of Rust as well. Sadly not as much of a haskell feeling but at least it has a warm shadow of some of its functional ancestors.
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Re: Road to Elm 1.0
#130I think of Elm more as an incredibly influential research language these days. It's very focused, there's no public roadmap or official support and the leadership (which is far as I can tell is just Evan) is uninterested in most (any?) community building or core team building. But MAN is it nice to work in. This has resulted in several forks/spin-offs. At the recent Gleam conference, Louis Pilfold joked that every El…
The nicest thing of Elm is how much it feels like Haskell. Have built some fun things with Elm years ago. The second nicest thing with Elm is the philosophy of if it compiles it works. And to be honest you can get that same feeling with most of Rust as well. Sadly not as much of a haskell feeling but at least it has a warm shadow of some of its functional ancestors.
Elm feels like a simplified Haskell which can handle a single space problem.