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Should DayQuil Be Legal?

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Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#91

Post by graypegg »

andy99 wrote: post #75

In Canada if you go to a drug store, the shelves are literally filled with literal homeopathic medicine. You have to carefully confirm that what you’re buying isn’t water, and there is no signage or other differentiation between actual medicine and magic. Completely unrelated, I noticed recently that tire detailing spray that makes your tires look black, and the recommended lubricant for my garage door weather stripp…

Ugh yup. My regular pharmacy is a pharmaprix (shoppers drug mart), which is one of the biggest chain pharmacies in canada. The cold and flu isle is right in front of the pick up counter, so when I was sick a few months ago one of the pharmacists flagged me down when they noticed me hovering around the cough drop/coldfx/oscillococcinum part of the isle. The amount of proverbial snake oil on the shelves is bad enough that she was apologizing for how confusing it was. Got me set up with OTC pseudoephedrine instead! (There's some combo PSE/acetaminophen meds they sell in front of the counter, but they're mixed in with the sugar pills.)

It's really worth talking to your pharmacist even if you know what you're buying. There's so many more options behind the counter and they're really knowledgable.

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#92

Post by [deleted] »

petesergeant wrote: post #47

> Why do we even have combination over-the-counter products at all? In America? No idea. In the UK it's because they sell codeine+tylenol OTC, and they want it to poison you if you try and get a codeine buzz from it. Incredibly this is true.

[deleted]

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#93

Post by Melatonic »

tptacek wrote: post #74
Aurornis wrote: post #35

This article uses the trick where you pick studies that support your argument and ignore all of the studies that disagree with it. There are other studies where Dextromethorphan improves both objective and subjective measures of coughing: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37232330/ They also picked a study that shows honey outperforming Dextromethorphan but ignored all the studies that show honey performing similarly o…

Are you sure you posted the right paper? That paper appears to present a clinically insignificant outcome for DXM in children. I think it's perfectly reasonable to contest the research summary this article is providing. All science-based articles on interesting topics are going to be like that. But you're writing your comment as if they took a flyer on DXM, and the research consensus is in fact that DXM is not effect…

Phenylephrine was the replacement that doesn't really work but is non (or less) stimulating right ?

From what I remember it was actually quite effective topically but not through pill form. Could be wrong.

Also makes me wonder if there's an alternative function to DXM for people with colds (maybe it makes them feel better in other ways). Or it's just good marketing and associated with NyQuil having other drugs and people assuming DayQuil works

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#94

Post by gumby »

jmalicki wrote: post #46
Aurornis wrote: post #35

This article uses the trick where you pick studies that support your argument and ignore all of the studies that disagree with it. There are other studies where Dextromethorphan improves both objective and subjective measures of coughing: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37232330/ They also picked a study that shows honey outperforming Dextromethorphan but ignored all the studies that show honey performing similarly o…

An interesting new drug is Auvelity, where Dextromethorphan is proposed to help stimulate neurotropic growth factor to help the brain repair itself, and similar related drugs like dextromethorphan and ketamine and other NMDA receptor antagonists are innovative drugs to help prevent Alzheimer's.

> … similar related drugs like dextromethorphan and ketamine and other NMDA receptor antagonists are innovative drugs to help prevent Alzheimer's.

Should read “NMDA receptor antagonists _may_ give rise to treatments that _may help prevent or ameliorate the symptoms_ of Alzheimer’s.

Nobody even knows how Alzheimer’s works at all — like most diseases it’s a description of some detectable symptoms, some of which could even turn out to be the body defending itself.

Thus compounds that may have a mechanism of action that affects some concomitant, visible symptoms might potentially be useful.

The use of definitive sentences about unknown results is how we end up with wellness and some “biohacking” nonsense.

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#95

Post by tzs »

> Take your standard 12-ounce bottle of DayQuil, which costs around $15 at CVS.

...

> So the only ingredient that’s doing anything in that bottle of DayQuil makes up just 2% of the bottle: the roughly 8 grams of acetaminophen, which separately would run you about 16 cents at Costco.

Why are they comparing the price of CVS DayQuil to Costco acetaminophen? Either compare CVS DayQuil to CVS acetaminophen or compare Costco DayQuil to Costco acetaminophen.

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#96

Post by nostrademons »

The article kinda glossed over it, but one fact under-appreciated by the general public is just how dangerous acetaminophen overdoses can be.

Scientists often talk about the "therapeutic index" or "safety ratio" of a drug. It's the LD50 (dose at which 50% of recipients die) divided by the effective dose. Common hard drugs like heroin or methamphetamine have a safety ratio of about 6-10 [1]. "Soft" drugs like marijuana or LSD often have safety ratios of about 1000.

The safety ratio of acetaminophen is under 4. A typical dosing schedule for an adult is 4-6 500mg tablets within a 24 hour period [2], for a total of no more than 3g. 7g of acetaminophen can kill you, and 12g is likely to [3]. Acetaminophen is the leading cause of liver failure in the U.S, causing 50% of cases and 20% of transplants.

When they tell you "don't exceed 6 doses daily", they really mean it, and it's across all acetaminophen-containing products. The margin for error is narrower than heroin.

[1] http://politicsofsin.50megs.com/risk/Toxicity.Comparison_Add...

[2] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3585765/

[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK441917/

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#97

Post by Melatonic »

jmalicki wrote: post #46
Aurornis wrote: post #35

This article uses the trick where you pick studies that support your argument and ignore all of the studies that disagree with it. There are other studies where Dextromethorphan improves both objective and subjective measures of coughing: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37232330/ They also picked a study that shows honey outperforming Dextromethorphan but ignored all the studies that show honey performing similarly o…

An interesting new drug is Auvelity, where Dextromethorphan is proposed to help stimulate neurotropic growth factor to help the brain repair itself, and similar related drugs like dextromethorphan and ketamine and other NMDA receptor antagonists are innovative drugs to help prevent Alzheimer's.

Haven't heard of Alzheimer's. What kind of use is necessary ? I would assume something like an ultra low dose but daily thing ?

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#98

Post by lokar »

jollyllama wrote: post #73

They wouldn't be selling the placebos if the real stuff were accessible. That's the real answer. The article mentions this but just accepts the inaccessiblity of the real thing as a given. You used to be able to get Nyquil with real sudafed in it. That was the gold standard. It's not even available behind the counter anymore, presumably because they can make more money from morons buying the placebos. As an aside: >…

I’m not sure. Another explanation is that it is accessible, with a small amount of friction.

But then drug makers realize they can get more sales by selling a placebo that won’t have the friction.

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#99

Post by Melatonic »

andy99 wrote: post #75

In Canada if you go to a drug store, the shelves are literally filled with literal homeopathic medicine. You have to carefully confirm that what you’re buying isn’t water, and there is no signage or other differentiation between actual medicine and magic. Completely unrelated, I noticed recently that tire detailing spray that makes your tires look black, and the recommended lubricant for my garage door weather stripp…

Silicone oil can actually vary a lot. Some are safe for certain plastics or rubber materials and not great for others.

The tire stuff might be the cheap shit that's not so safe just because tires are so thick and robust. Or maybe it's actually designed for tires.

Re: Should DayQuil Be Legal?

#100

Post by Melatonic »

tzs wrote: post #95

> Take your standard 12-ounce bottle of DayQuil, which costs around $15 at CVS. ... > So the only ingredient that’s doing anything in that bottle of DayQuil makes up just 2% of the bottle: the roughly 8 grams of acetaminophen, which separately would run you about 16 cents at Costco. Why are they comparing the price of CVS DayQuil to Costco acetaminophen? Either compare CVS DayQuil to CVS acetaminophen or compare Cost…

Yeah that seems odd. It's also a very different delivery mechanism. Might be easier to get a sick and snotty kid to drink some (maybe?) tasty liquid vs cheap pills.
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