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UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

reuters.com

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Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#41

Post by glimshe »

rjrjrjrj wrote: post #36
glimshe wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? It has now been used twice. I challenge anyone who's a soccer fan to look at the play that led to the red card and say "Yeah, that deserved a red card" with a straight face. The outcome was fair. That was a scandalous red card and a rule that exists to be sparingly used in situations like that was triggered. Hopefully it will keep being sparingly used but they should not hesitate to overturn unjust punishmen…

Doesn't seem fair that Belgium has to alter their game plan the day before the match because FIFA dropped a totally unexpected decision 4 days after unequivocally stating there was no appeal process for the red card suspension.

Gee, we're not talking about Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo here... What kind of super secret, complex scheme was Belgium creating for Balogun?

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#42

Post by AnimalMuppet »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #15
bhupy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The goal is ultimately entertainment This is something I see so many people forgetting. The net result of this decision is simply that the USA gets to play with their full squad and you have an actually interesting competition. The reason we as a world spend hundreds of millions of dollars to let athletes play a game for a living is pretty much exclusively for interesting competition. It serves no other socially us…

It is more entertaining if the rules are the same for everyone. It would be fine if the official rule is red card disqualifies from next game until a dignitary calls. Or red card consequences can be modified for the top or most popular player on a team.

I do not follow soccer all that closely, but I seem to recall reading about other heads of state appealing the ban of their players.

Sorry, I can't give details - I only have a vague memory of it. Does anyone else recall?

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#43

Post by rjrjrjrj »

glimshe wrote: post #41
rjrjrjrj wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't seem fair that Belgium has to alter their game plan the day before the match because FIFA dropped a totally unexpected decision 4 days after unequivocally stating there was no appeal process for the red card suspension.

Gee, we're not talking about Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo here... What kind of super secret, complex scheme was Belgium creating for Balogun?

> Gee, we're not talking about Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo here

He's their leading scorer.

His exclusion seemed kind of important to you a couple posts back. Along with the Secretary of the Treasury, and the inaugural FIFA Peace Prize recipient.

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#45

Post by bhupy »

rjrjrjrj wrote: post #37
bhupy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, it's a failure of governance that FIFA doesn't have a proper appeals process for everyone to use. It is unfortunate that the only rules-based mechanism to suspend the match ban had to come from FIFA, which in practice will be arbitrary. It was the right outcome, but the wrong process.

> It is unfortunate that the only rules-based mechanism to suspend the match ban had to come from FIFA With a little push from the President and Secretary of the Treasury.

Correct.

Hence: “which in practice will be arbitrary.”

It’s on FIFA to correct for that governance failure by making it less arbitrary via a more universal appeals process.

In any case, the rules were followed to the correct decision. It’s just that these rules as written are arbitrarily applied.

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#46

Post by rjrjrjrj »

bhupy wrote: post #45
rjrjrjrj wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is unfortunate that the only rules-based mechanism to suspend the match ban had to come from FIFA With a little push from the President and Secretary of the Treasury.

Correct. Hence: “which in practice will be arbitrary.” It’s on FIFA to correct for that governance failure by making it less arbitrary via a more universal appeals process. In any case, the rules were followed to the correct decision. It’s just that these rules as written are arbitrarily applied.

It seems like there are contradictory rules, and FIFA is confused about which to apply.

5 days ago, FIFA said there was no appeal process. Yesterday, there was a magic reversal.

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#48

Post by [deleted] »

banannaise wrote: post #33

Between this and the C.Ronaldo decision, I wonder if we're headed toward a future change to the automatic red card suspension. Part of what makes a red seem extreme for certain fouls is the automatic suspension. The point of the suspension is to discourage deliberately violent actions when the current match isn't a major concern (i.e. late in games that aren't close, or when the result is largely immaterial). That ob…

[deleted]

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#49

Post by [deleted] »

5555624 wrote: post #39
this_user wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule does exist, but in all of World Cup history, it has been used once for this purpose over 50 years ago. During a tournament, it is understood that a red card means an automatic suspension for at least the next match. That is something that is universally applied. FIFA are clearly breaking with precedent here by using an obscure rule to lift the suspension of the host nation's player, which very much looks lik…

FIFA also used the rule to allow Cristiano Ronaldo to play in this World Cup. Ronaldo got a red card in a World Cup qualifier, last November, for "violent conduct" (an elbow). It would have kept him out of the opening match for Portugal in this World Cup. He was issued a suspended suspension, under Article 27, allowing him to play.

[deleted]

Re: UEFA slams FIFA's 'unprecedented, unjustifiable' Balogun decision

#50

Post by bhupy »

rjrjrjrj wrote: post #46
bhupy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. Hence: “which in practice will be arbitrary.” It’s on FIFA to correct for that governance failure by making it less arbitrary via a more universal appeals process. In any case, the rules were followed to the correct decision. It’s just that these rules as written are arbitrarily applied.

It seems like there are contradictory rules, and FIFA is confused about which to apply. 5 days ago, FIFA said there was no appeal process. Yesterday, there was a magic reversal.

No, those are not at all contradictory, it is entirely consistent.

Two things can be true at the same time:

1. There is no appeals process that USA (or any team) can initiate

2. There is a mechanism that FIFA can initiate to suspend a match ban at their discretion

That is why it's a bad system; as long as it's initiated by FIFA, it will always be arbitrary and capricious.

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