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What Emily Bender meant by "stochastic parrots"

spectrum.ieee.org

21–30 of 280 posts

Re: What Emily Bender meant by "stochastic parrots"

#21
> in part because Google fired two of the authors, Timnit Gebru

I remember being angry about this situation when I first saw it on social media, until I read the details: This person submitted a list of demands to her employer and said that if they weren’t met, she quit. Google wasn’t going to meet her demands so they considered it acceptance of her resignation. There has been a movement trying to debate whether it was a firing or resignation ever since.

The original paper they published gets recirculated every year or two as some landmark history of AI safety, but as other commenters have noted it wasn’t really a great paper nor was it groundbreaking at the time. If not for the controversy surrounding the resignation/firing (depending on your POV), I don’t think it would have been notable.

Re: What Emily Bender meant by "stochastic parrots"

#23
post #6

The term is not very useful since most humans are stochastic parrots... At least most of the time. Not suggesting that I don't say stuff on autopilot sometimes but for many people, it's their only mode of operation. They never actually think about anything from first principles. Their whole approach to language is just chaining catchphrases together. It's how a toddler thinks; it seems like many people never moved pa…

It sometimes feels same as with the models, especially in corporate:

- Lots of Haiku around, many mistakes unless process is very clear - Some Sonnets, still do mistakes but can adapt - Some Opus, able to improvise and think outside the box.

But even the Human Opus/Mythos are hilariously wrong sometimes.

Re: What Emily Bender meant by "stochastic parrots"

#24
I think this is the most measured take I've seen from Bender, and I think it summarizes her only compelling point well (technologies should be referred to specifically rather than generally as AI, and that referring to everything as AI is not useful and helps hype the technology in a way that benefits those selling it).

In her previous interviews, I've found her assertion that LLMs aren't useful and will never be good at anything totally uncompelling. Also laughed at this quote as she's been pretty harsh IMO on "the people who like the systems".

> it’s all about trying to make vivid to people who aren’t in the business of building language technology what these systems actually do, which is not the same thing as insulting the systems or insulting the people who like the systems.

Re: What Emily Bender meant by "stochastic parrots"

#25
> With the octopus thought experiment, I initially had told the story in terms of a dolphin, because dolphins clearly are intelligent animals. My co-author on that paper, Alexander Koller, said it should be an octopus, because first of all, the environment that octopuses live in is much more distinct from where people live. It makes the metaphor more vivid, that the octopus is just feeling these pulses in the cable and has no way to look at what the people are looking at.

On a completely tangential sidenote, octopusses are actually very very intelligent: https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/octopuses-keep-surprising-us-...

Re: What Emily Bender meant by "stochastic parrots"

#26
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pattern matching machines seems more appropriate.

LLMs do not match patterns. They predict one statistically most likely token (only one!) given a history of some N previously known tokens.

afaik before the final sampling, every "next" token has a probability, so theoretically it could select the 10 most likely tokens (based on some kind of sampling algorithm), but you'd end up with exponentially many output-sequences, so nobody does that.

Re: What Emily Bender meant by "stochastic parrots"

#27
it annoys me how eager people are to hurl the word stochastic as pejorative. Statistics are a great tool for gleaning information from stochastic processes; statistics don't contribute randomness. Random sampling is necessary in order not to bias a sample, it's not used to contribute randomness to the sample but to preserve/measure the underlying distribution. (not meant to imply that training is random sampling)

Re: What Emily Bender meant by "stochastic parrots"

#28
post #2

Five years on, which term do we see as less accurate to describe LLMs? Artificial Intelligence or Stochastic Parrot? I guess it's still an open debate.

What's wrong with "large language model"?

Seems like a lot of people are upset about other people calling both apples and oranges “fruit”.

Re: What Emily Bender meant by "stochastic parrots"

#29
What I have been doing in many places—the octopus thought experiment, stochastic parrots, the phrase “synthetic text-extruding machines”—it’s all about trying to make vivid to people who aren’t in the business of building language technology what these systems actually do

> Meanwhile, O, a hyper-intelligent deep-sea octopus who is unable to visit or observe the two islands, discovers a way to tap into the underwater cable and listen in on A and B’s conversations. O knows nothing about English initially, but is very good at detecting statistical patterns. Over time, O learns to predict with great accuracy how B will respond to each of A’s utterances. O also observes that certain words tend to occur in similar contexts, and perhaps learns to generalize across lexical patterns by hypothesizing that they can be used somewhat interchangeably. Nonetheless, Ohas never observed these objects, and thus would not be able to pick out the referent of a word when presented with a set of (physical) alternatives.

This seems kind of obviously wrong at least in the context of coding agents. These models get trained on actual output of the previous version of the model doing its job, often "IRL" on a real computer/project. It's like O is in the conversation for years now and learning from his own interactions between A O B, where A is the human and B is the computer.

The idea O ontologically has never "observed" "these objects" or referents is philosophically strained. Have I observed the moon, or a finger pointing at the moon? Have I observed `sed` more than Fable?

Re: What Emily Bender meant by "stochastic parrots"

#30
post #6

The term is not very useful since most humans are stochastic parrots... At least most of the time. Not suggesting that I don't say stuff on autopilot sometimes but for many people, it's their only mode of operation. They never actually think about anything from first principles. Their whole approach to language is just chaining catchphrases together. It's how a toddler thinks; it seems like many people never moved pa…

Conversely, that the most prominent proponents of LLMs call them artificial intelligence and then treat them like slaves they're free to abuse ought to be horrifying.
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