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Road to Elm 1.0

elm-lang.org

71–80 of 192 posts

Re: Road to Elm 1.0

#71
post #54

I think of Elm more as an incredibly influential research language these days. It's very focused, there's no public roadmap or official support and the leadership (which is far as I can tell is just Evan) is uninterested in most (any?) community building or core team building. But MAN is it nice to work in. This has resulted in several forks/spin-offs. At the recent Gleam conference, Louis Pilfold joked that every El…

Yeah Elm has had a very strange arc, but I think calling it a research language is right. There was a period where it was heavily evangelized. Many blog posts were written and talks given, and there was a lot of enthusiasm and adoption. Then the author just kind of disappeared and the project stalled. Which of course he had a right to do since it’s his project, but I think he should have set expectations better from…

> Then the author just kind of disappeared and the project stalled.

There was more to the story than that. They made some major breaking changes in v0.19 that broke a lot of apps and left no path for them to continue with Elm, then dug their heels in when the community protested.

If you had an app at your company that used the features they decided not to allow any more, you either had to start deciding which fork to follow or start planning to rewrite your app in something else.

That evangelism turned into an uncomfortable gaslighting where half of the community was trying to tell you that this change was what was best for the language and that you didn’t really need that feature anyway.

There were several forks but I don’t know if any got traction. It felt like an already small community was fracturing into even smaller communities right after alienating a lot of people.

Re: Road to Elm 1.0

#72
post #48

About two years ago I was experimenting with ChatGPT vibecoding a snake game in the browser in elm, because elm is my favorite language. It was rough going and I concluded at the time that LLM‘s might kill elm. Today I use elm in production and LLMs are vastly better at it, and if anything I think LLM‘s might increase elm adoption because it is the ideal language for an LLM right now. It’s a simpler language than mos…

Maybe it's improved, but I was very disappointed to find agents constantly tripping over significant white space with Elm (Claude Code). Always struck me as strange since they are very proficient with python... and Elm has been one of the most stable modern languages (so stable that people complain about it never changing!). I think the last time I tried was a year ago though, so I assume it has improved.

LLMs are way past that, Claude Code can very competently write Elm code now, for example.

Re: Road to Elm 1.0

#74
I almost fell off my chair! Elm is easily my favourite language, and I didn't think it'd ever get another update. Thanks Evan!

Re: Road to Elm 1.0

#75
post #54

I think of Elm more as an incredibly influential research language these days. It's very focused, there's no public roadmap or official support and the leadership (which is far as I can tell is just Evan) is uninterested in most (any?) community building or core team building. But MAN is it nice to work in. This has resulted in several forks/spin-offs. At the recent Gleam conference, Louis Pilfold joked that every El…

For whatever it's worth, I've found Gren to be a very capable successor with an active and helpful community.

Re: Road to Elm 1.0

#76

About two years ago I was experimenting with ChatGPT vibecoding a snake game in the browser in elm, because elm is my favorite language. It was rough going and I concluded at the time that LLM‘s might kill elm. Today I use elm in production and LLMs are vastly better at it, and if anything I think LLM‘s might increase elm adoption because it is the ideal language for an LLM right now. It’s a simpler language than mos…

On that note, because of AI I've been more into music, bought a midi keyboard, got real DAW software setup. I've also finally built more and more with Rust, and have been reading more Rust docs. LLMs should never be an excuse not to learn the things you're using it for, those are the bad engineers. An LLM affords me the time to research and learn what it gave me so I can maintain it. It's easier to prompt about the p…

If you have a blog or something anywhere, I'm very interested in your journey.

Re: Road to Elm 1.0

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah Elm has had a very strange arc, but I think calling it a research language is right. There was a period where it was heavily evangelized. Many blog posts were written and talks given, and there was a lot of enthusiasm and adoption. Then the author just kind of disappeared and the project stalled. Which of course he had a right to do since it’s his project, but I think he should have set expectations better from…

> Then the author just kind of disappeared and the project stalled. There was more to the story than that. They made some major breaking changes in v0.19 that broke a lot of apps and left no path for them to continue with Elm, then dug their heels in when the community protested. If you had an app at your company that used the features they decided not to allow any more, you either had to start deciding which fork to…

What feature is that?

Re: Road to Elm 1.0

#78
post #27
post #6

used elm between 2016-17. it taught me a lot of things - such as simplicity. when I ended up switching to react - redux was easy to pick up cz of elm. sadly the ecosystem never grew. but oh man elm is nice & the apps were performant.

What's the Elm definition of simplicity? Genuinely asking, because the concept of simplicity is very vague and overloaded in programming.

[deleted]

Re: Road to Elm 1.0

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then the author just kind of disappeared and the project stalled. There was more to the story than that. They made some major breaking changes in v0.19 that broke a lot of apps and left no path for them to continue with Elm, then dug their heels in when the community protested. If you had an app at your company that used the features they decided not to allow any more, you either had to start deciding which fork to…

What feature is that?

One form of JavaScript interop. Instead of being able to write bindings directly to native code, you had to pass messages through "ports" instead.

https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/native-code-in-0-19/826

Personally, I was sad to see signals and FRP go in 0.17

https://elm-lang.org/news/farewell-to-frp

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