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Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

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Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#201

Post by Phlarp »

ryanhuff wrote: post #128
calinet6 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like saying that Sony can make an mp3 player, so the iPod isn't competitive in that market. Or that a 5GB iPod won't hold enough music, so it's just an expensive toy. Within 5-10 years the battery problem will improve, especially if there is demand. This is technology, not automotive development. We're not in Detroit anymore. They're in a different class. Tesla is set up to do it right from the start at a muc…

Its a bit presumptuous to say that Tesla is so different. Sure, they are attractive at the moment because of unique niche they are filling. If BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Acura, etc all sold an all-electric vehicle with similar range, Tesla's differentiation becomes much less unique, and normal competitive factors come into play (scale, marketing, etc).

By the time these manufacturers catch up to where Tesla is now, wouldn't Tesla still (presumably) be years ahead?

Standing still while "the powers that be" catch up seems oddly unlike a company with such an obvious culture of pushing the envelope.

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#202

Post by sukuriant »

clarky07 wrote: post #200
sukuriant wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand, alternative gasolines tend to come from plants that we would otherwise be eating. I believe a more sustainable system would be one that doesn't use something we're already using for an area as vital as our food. Hydrogen, as an example, isn't something we ingest; and the output, so they claim, is water. Also, coal is probably the most bad-for-the-environment, dangerous and radioactive thing we…

That's true for ethanol (which was a terrible idea), but you can also get gas from coal gasification[1] as your parent noted [2] [1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_gasification [2] - Fischer-Tropsch - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer-Tropsch_process

And the radioactive coal?

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#203

Post by stcredzero »

temp453463343 wrote: post #184
jlgreco wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that large cars are difficult on many of their roads, particularly in some towns/cities.

good point. There are some crazy narrow streets. The bus drivers are insane. Like half of a foot of clearance between the wheels and the curb on each side.

I've seen 1/2 foot of clearance between the bus and passengers. (With a hedge and wall just on the other side of the passengers.)

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#204

Post by stcredzero »

el_cuadrado wrote: post #94
dave1619 wrote: post #86

Tesla Motors is in great shape. I've been following the company for a while and recently drove the Model S. Amazing car in almost every way. What struck me was that it's not an incremental improvement but really a radical (might I say disruptive) improvement in terms of ride quality (super quiet), handling (low center of gravity with skateboard powertrain), electronics (17" touchscreen), cargo space (heard of the fru…

This is assuming BMW et all stop any innovation. But they won't. They will offer an electric vehicle the moment it becomes feasible (and I am sorry but 200 miles range is still an exciting and expensive toy).

Aside from long trips to the next town, I've not had a day with more than 200 miles driven in years. And the most frequent long trip was about 180 miles.

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#205

Post by stcredzero »

calinet6 wrote: post #118
el_cuadrado wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is assuming BMW et all stop any innovation. But they won't. They will offer an electric vehicle the moment it becomes feasible (and I am sorry but 200 miles range is still an exciting and expensive toy).

This is like saying that Sony can make an mp3 player, so the iPod isn't competitive in that market. Or that a 5GB iPod won't hold enough music, so it's just an expensive toy. Within 5-10 years the battery problem will improve, especially if there is demand. This is technology, not automotive development. We're not in Detroit anymore. They're in a different class. Tesla is set up to do it right from the start at a muc…

Ford is striking me as innovative nowadays. Eliminating the gas cap is one example.

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#206

Post by sliverstorm »

jlgreco wrote: post #99
yid wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment, thank you. I'd just like to add that the "frunk" isn't new -- I've been stashing my gym bag in my Porsche 911's frunk for years (it's a rear-engined car). Edit: While I absolutely live the Model S, I can assure you that exceeding stalwarts of the 5-series category, like the BMW M5, will not be as easy to disrupt as the market the Model S aims for.

Does Porsche call it a "frunk" too? I can't stand that word, it's cute, but awful. Sounds like a word I might use to describe a particularly pungent cheese.

It's a popular portmanteau. MR2 owners also call it a frunk.

http://carpron.com/multisite/d/356228-1/frunk4.jpg

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#207

Post by sliverstorm »

bengl3rt wrote: post #120
shiftpgdn wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MKII MR2 turbo had both a trunk and a frunk. Not to the capacity of the Tesla, but still.

I assume the NA model was the same way? Or just the turbo?

I believe it was the same.

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#208

Post by sliverstorm »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #97
dave1619 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but maybe the frunk + full trunk is new?

The MKII MR2 turbo had both a trunk and a frunk. Not to the capacity of the Tesla, but still.

As did, I believe, the MKI and MKIII. None of the rear trunks could hold much more than a golf bag, of course, but anyway.

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#209

Post by sliverstorm »

temp453463343 wrote: post #105
dave1619 wrote: post #86

Tesla Motors is in great shape. I've been following the company for a while and recently drove the Model S. Amazing car in almost every way. What struck me was that it's not an incremental improvement but really a radical (might I say disruptive) improvement in terms of ride quality (super quiet), handling (low center of gravity with skateboard powertrain), electronics (17" touchscreen), cargo space (heard of the fru…

I think it's a bit of a shame that they're playing the game on the same terms as the other car companies. You're absolutely right that each model seems to target a particular "class" of cars. I think a little more adventurous designs would have been great. For instance I think it would have been perfect if they made a Tesla land-yacht in the style of 70's cars. Big, heavy (lots of room for extra batteries), nice cush…

"classes" of cars exist for the same reason "classes" of computing exists, e.g. servers, desktops, laptops, tablets, cell phones, etc. You can produce a more compelling product if you pick a very clear target, and you cover more of the market if you pick a variety of very different targets. This is super important for car companies, who can only afford to develop a few cars at a time.

As for boat-cars, I'm sure there's a few folks out there who would love one, but Tesla is seriously underwater. They need to penetrate the largest/most profitable markets and capitalize. Then they can worry about tiny niche offerings.

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#210

Post by sliverstorm »

stcredzero wrote: post #205
calinet6 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like saying that Sony can make an mp3 player, so the iPod isn't competitive in that market. Or that a 5GB iPod won't hold enough music, so it's just an expensive toy. Within 5-10 years the battery problem will improve, especially if there is demand. This is technology, not automotive development. We're not in Detroit anymore. They're in a different class. Tesla is set up to do it right from the start at a muc…

Ford is striking me as innovative nowadays. Eliminating the gas cap is one example.

I really like a lot of what I hear about Ford's doings recently. For example, they will be introducing a very euro-esque 1.0L 3-cyl turbo engine for the Fiesta to the USA market. Not only do I like that move, but the engine has a lot of really neat, innovative design points.
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