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You need a webring

shub.club

61–70 of 72 posts

Re: You need a webring

#61
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the original webrings from 1995 were literally rings - each site linked to one other site in the ring, and eventually one of them would link back to the “first” site, making an actual ring.

Nope. There was no "first" site as you say - it was literally just a list of links. The most innovative ones were iframes of a single source of links (iframes were all the rage, unless of course you clicked "no frames" as a user, because your internet was so slow). But even the less formal ones simply listed links to other sites, there was no visit order, and definitely was not directional/circular. It's "ring" like…

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webring :

> To be a part of the webring, each site has a common navigation bar; it contains links to the previous and next sites. By selecting next (or previous) repeatedly, the user will eventually reach the site they started at; this is the origin of the term "webring."

But, it was a fundamentally silly structure for the web, so many sites implemented something beyond the ring structure, which is what you're describing. Technically, those weren't webrings in the above sense.

> It's "ring" like a boxing ring

Nice retcon, but wrong.

Re: You need a webring

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A webring is a circular doubly linked list - to insert a new site, you only need two existing sites to update their links. It's decentralized and works with any tech stack, including editing a static HTML file. It's a little silly if everyone is working off a centrally-maintained JSON file, you might as well turn it into a blogroll at that point.

>It's decentralized But extremely fragile since if even one node in the network goes down the network is broken and if two go down then there will be sites no longer reachable from others. You want to know the other nodes in the network so you can deal with nodes that go down or leave the network.

If those are concerns to you, you are not really the target audience.

Re: You need a webring

#63
I recently added Wander to a website of mine (https://www.heyhomepage.com/wander/). Before that, I became a proud member of the small Tech Makers webring (at the bottom of https://www.theredpanther.org/).

Even before that, I just implemented a blogroll (or list of shared links, as I prefer to call it) at https://www.heyhomepage.com/?module=timeline&link=1&view=sha... Maybe your blog is also in it!? I manually picked most of the bookmarks/feeds I follow from HN.

The basis of all these rolls, lists and rings are - of course - hyperlinks. RSS and OPML are silently working in the background. I think there's still unfulfilled potential for RSS as a replacement for social media, because the open web is already social media.

Re: You need a webring

#64
post #19
post #2

Using a Cloudflare Worker to implement a web 0.9 feature

This should be just a static page… Cloudflare pages are perfect for this. All updating could be done in the repo by special scripts from MD or some other files.

Please, just don't use Cloudflare anything. They are an evil monopoly akin to Google, or the Microsoft of yesterdecade. They MITM about a third of all web traffic and block humans arbitrarily.

Re: You need a webring

#65

Not sure I get it. Why a "ring"? Why not just have a list of web-site URLs on a page and share that page with your friends and ask them to put that page somewhere on their site? "Ring" means you are navigating linearly and circularly. Isn't it better to provide a list of links so users can choose where they want to go "next"? And why should I have to go around the whole "ring" to get back to where I started from? The…

Agreed, I never saw the point of having a group of sites like that instead each site just linking the other related/recommended sites - i.e. a web.

Re: You need a webring

#66

Not sure I get it. Why a "ring"? Why not just have a list of web-site URLs on a page and share that page with your friends and ask them to put that page somewhere on their site? "Ring" means you are navigating linearly and circularly. Isn't it better to provide a list of links so users can choose where they want to go "next"? And why should I have to go around the whole "ring" to get back to where I started from? The…

> "Ring" means you are navigating linearly and circularly. Isn't it better to provide a list of links so users can choose where they want to go "next"?

That depends! If your goal is some optimal way of navigating, sure. But the shape of a webring means your site has two "neighbours", which is fun and uses spatial notions we don't see often anymore. It also means someone can remember Site Y as "the one next from Site X", which is also fun and creates more ways sites relate to each other. This relating to one another is usually the point of a webring.

Re: You need a webring

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't neccessarly have to be such a "ring" that you navigate from website #1 to website #2 and the order is always the same, and you cannot jump, or even do random browsing. I think initially the idea was mainly around the "ring" concept, but relatively quickly lots of different implementations did lots of different things, and we still called those "webrings" even though many weren't conceptually "rings" at all…

So part of it seems to be working together: I link to your site with the expectation that you link back to mine. Not a bad idea, also letting the site-creators coordinate who focuses on which sub-topic. But are there many examples of this in the real web?

Web-rings were really common in the later 90's... Mostly based on topic or focus of the site(s) in question. It was a common discovery mechanism... you'd usually have prev/next/random/list links, where you could navigate via prev or next, but also jump to a random site int he ring or to a list of sites in the ring.

It's nice to see some old ideas like this come back... also hoping to see more self-hosted conversational sites around topics of interest (bulletin boards) over the giant social media sites we have today.

Re: You need a webring

#68

And you need to stop telling everyone what we need! "You might be interested in this if you have this and that" sounds so much more reasonable.

Agreed. There should be a subset of Betteridge's law: if a headline states that you need to do something, you don't.

Re: You need a webring

#69
I do think many people with websites an visiting websites would enjoy using webrings again.

Interesting to see some misconceptions in this comments here, and the graphic at wikipedia showing it as an actual ring of links, but I don't believe that was ever a solid explanation.

Sure there was the option to add your website to most webrings, and some had checker settings to see if a recip link existed then plublish and share.. but that was short lived because spammers, and google's change of 'bad neighborhoods hurt you' - then corporate rollup / walls up..

However on many websites it was great to find similar sites and other sites the author had an interest in and wanted to share with friends / visitros.. recip link or not.

It was a useful tool for discovery and sharing. Google got so important so fast that people (and even at the software level (starting at you wordpress)) removed blogrolls entirely.

Now that it's understood that you can share with the nofollow attribute added to links, I think we will see more people adding blogrolls / webrings and that will naturally lead to more links back, and people appreciating sharing of other places of interest.

I started developing a new webrings plugin to make it easier for people to share and get submissions / suggestions, with options for checking for recip links, having a default nofollow link and such.

This led me to thinking about other uses for the same data / DB / fields.. and decidedly that the same backend parts can also create 'directory pages' - which are essentially what webrings were just as a footer scrolling widget verses full page per category.. so I added that.

Then I realized the same bits are basically waht is needed for creating a directory or associates.. could be other people who meet at a conference, could be people you work with, other companies you've done business with, or other professionals you've bumped into at other job sites / projects.. so I added that and it also is becoming a contact sharing / directory / roledex kind of system.

I did one blog post showing part of the functionality that is in the works: https://betterwebgroup.com/from-business-cards-to-digital-di...

Right now I'm working through the backend being difficult to chose what shows up on the front end and under what conditions.. hope to have sorted by end of month - when will hope people will help with testing and suggestions.

Trying to make it as standalone react system that can work into any website and a wordpress plugin at the same time has led to so challenges.. but it's getting close.

Re: You need a webring

#70

In a webring, do you usually always have the same fixed webring neighbours? Back in the days, how did it usually work about this : If your neighbour has only 7 visitor/day but you do have 100/day, can you ask to change and have this other 10000 visitor/day-site as neighbour? As a webring admin, how do you manage these member requests?

Back in the days, the webring idea wasn’t driven by popularity groups and metrics but by affinity, from the perspective of authors.

A ring was thematic, friends, interest.

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