Live data from Hacker News

OpenPrinter

opentools.studio

201–210 of 299 posts

Re: OpenPrinter

#201
post #14

Interesting comment from last time this was posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48093670 Inkjet printing requires orders of magnitude more engineering expertise, materials science, industry experience and financial resources than most people imagine. That is the reason, open inkjet printers don't exist despite having been consumer products with the same drawbacks for more than forty years. That is why this is…

On the technology side, I'm somewhat hopeful because it looks like they're using off-the-shelf HP ink cartridges for this. HP cartridges embed the printhead into the cartridge itself, and that printhead is arguably the most complicated part of the entire device. Outsource the printhead, and you're just designing a plotter with a PCL interface. I agree that the bigger challenge is going to be patents. It also wouldn't…

The cartridge heads have a super curious digital protocol - the cartridge electronics have no power supply. There is no power rail internally either.

Instead they use the fact mosfet gates have capacitance, and can therefore store 1 'bit' of information. Through a network of hundreds of MOSFETs, the right bits can be put on all the nozzle gates as needed, and then a 'fire' pulse is sent which for around a microsecond turns on a tiny heater (or not, depending on mosfet gate state). The heater boils some ink, making a pressure wave which travels down a pipe and makes a drop of ink fly out towards the paper. That heating and cooling again can happen around 10,000 times per second per nozzle (and there are ~300 nozzles).

I suspect this decision is because the custom silicon process needed to manufacture these nozzles is cheaper if they only have n type MOSFETs - and without p type MOSFETs you can't make a typical push pull logic gate.

The nozzles themselves are quite a lot of silicon - perhaps 100mm^2, with deep etched holes, and are effectively disposable, so I assume huge efforts have been taken to reduce costs - including this curious electrical design.

The protocol also is hugely irregular, which I suspect might be to avoid any wires on the chip needing to cross eachother.

Re: OpenPrinter

#202

Interesting comment from last time this was posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48093670 Inkjet printing requires orders of magnitude more engineering expertise, materials science, industry experience and financial resources than most people imagine. That is the reason, open inkjet printers don't exist despite having been consumer products with the same drawbacks for more than forty years. That is why this is…

Generic inkjet cartridges (including the nozzles) and ink are readily available. The head movement and is easier then a 3d printer, the will be some learning's for the paper handling but seems very achievable to me.

Re: OpenPrinter

#203
post #125
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the technology side, I'm somewhat hopeful because it looks like they're using off-the-shelf HP ink cartridges for this. HP cartridges embed the printhead into the cartridge itself, and that printhead is arguably the most complicated part of the entire device. Outsource the printhead, and you're just designing a plotter with a PCL interface. I agree that the bigger challenge is going to be patents. It also wouldn't…

Impression v. Lexmark is directly relevant to the patent situation here; in a case involving reprogrammed ink cartridges, the Supreme Court held that patent rights are exhausted by first sale doctrine; that is, if you sell me something patented, you can't sue me for patent infringement for using the thing you sold me, even if I do something later that makes you upset. It's also been widely held that ink cartridge com…

These cartridges were first released in 2004, and there don't seem to have been any major design changes since then. The electrical and digital interface for printing has remained the same, as well as the mechanics. There is a new DRM system using another chip, but that is one-way - ie. It prevents an original printer from using the cartridge, but doesn't prevent use of an original cartridge by a third party printer.

Any patents are probably expired or very close to it.

Re: OpenPrinter

#204
post #50

Interesting comment from last time this was posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48093670 Inkjet printing requires orders of magnitude more engineering expertise, materials science, industry experience and financial resources than most people imagine. That is the reason, open inkjet printers don't exist despite having been consumer products with the same drawbacks for more than forty years. That is why this is…

I noticed that previous post is from a couple of months ago, and it looks like about a week ago they posted a project update and they claim for their current prototype: "We are successfully printing in both black and full color." https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer/updates/... Of course I have no way of verifying either way. Still I do think the project looks quite interesting, I'm in the market for a…

There's a video of the prototype printing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB7iAFXCJQM

Re: OpenPrinter

#205
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impression v. Lexmark is directly relevant to the patent situation here; in a case involving reprogrammed ink cartridges, the Supreme Court held that patent rights are exhausted by first sale doctrine; that is, if you sell me something patented, you can't sue me for patent infringement for using the thing you sold me, even if I do something later that makes you upset. It's also been widely held that ink cartridge com…

A sea of patents designed to inhibit competition & promote rent extraction, and we are running around in circles chasing our tails wondering how we can compete with China.

China is changing stance on patents... Thier companies are now filing for patents at great speed, and I wouldn't be surprised if they start mass suing American companies for violations.

I could totally imagine a rapid upheaval of the patent system as soon as we see it being used against us.

Re: OpenPrinter

#206
post #27

Interesting comment from last time this was posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48093670 Inkjet printing requires orders of magnitude more engineering expertise, materials science, industry experience and financial resources than most people imagine. That is the reason, open inkjet printers don't exist despite having been consumer products with the same drawbacks for more than forty years. That is why this is…

It really makes more sense to just buy a laser printer, in almost all cases.

Except when you need to ocassionally print/copy in color, in which case inkjets are more economical.

Even if you can afford a color laser, the problem is a color MFP (ie including a scanner) occupies a lot more space compared to a equivalent inkjet, and for some people this could be a deal breaker.

Re: OpenPrinter

#207

Laser printers are so much more economical. I use Brother black and white laser printer with after market toner cartridges from eBay . Print around 200 pages a day. Around 5000 pages for 37 AUD ie around 25 USD. The paper costs more per page than the toner. Just make sure you stay away from HP branded printers...

yeah, I have a cheap brother laser printer, I don't print that much, but it's been solid for several years. I did have an HP, but it was incredibly problematic, would jam rather easily. Works fine under linux as well.

Does the ink ever dry? That’s my biggest problem with non-lasers - I print maybe 10-100 pages a year but every time I need to change the toner because it’s too dry. And do you print color or no?

Re: OpenPrinter

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so?

laser printers are cheap and don't need catriges

Color laser printers (MFPs with ADFs to be exact) aren't exactly cheap. Last I checked they were 2-3x more expensive than equivalent inkjets, and occupied a lot of space too.

Re: OpenPrinter

#209
post #80

I was hoping to see a printer that say a prepper could build from scratch. This design 100% depends on commercial print cartridges containing the actual print-head. Once that clogs, you need to get another one, good luck getting one once production has stopped. Also, if you wanted to avoid yellow dots, not sure if this is built into the cartridge or the firmware of the rest of the printer. Now, I understand that woul…

"From scratch", ie raw materials only, probably limits the results to plotters until you've bootstrapped some presicion machinery. And electronics. How many parts you're allowed is going to be an arbitrary choice anyway.

But the heads being disposable and one day unavailable is kind of a valid concern if a new source doesn't eventually turn up.

Re: OpenPrinter

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, I have a cheap brother laser printer, I don't print that much, but it's been solid for several years. I did have an HP, but it was incredibly problematic, would jam rather easily. Works fine under linux as well.

Does the ink ever dry? That’s my biggest problem with non-lasers - I print maybe 10-100 pages a year but every time I need to change the toner because it’s too dry. And do you print color or no?

No doesn’t dry up. It’s why I change from inkjet. And yes they print colour too.

They are fine for documents but if you want details photo printing then inkjet I think has an edge, but for most people laser is better choice.

Post reply on HN