Live data from Hacker News

Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

katamari64.se

411–420 of 441 posts

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#411
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the goal of an encyclopedia is to inform people on things that it covers, isn't it? It's quite broad with Wikipedia but still... The language clearly exists, it's not a student project, it's is use, people are interested in it. So the page was created, but is now removed because of formalities (the lack of good enough sources).

Note the bad faith of your correspondent: > As a reader thank god not everything that has grabbed the attention of social media gets an article. ... > what I want doesn't matter for an encyclopedia.

The goalpost moving is by definition bad faith.

> What I said isn't bad faith, that's literally not how encyclopedias work.

Changing the subject is yet more bad faith ... what I called bad faith wasn't anything about how encyclopedias work, it was about an evasive rhetorical move.

> it's judgement by trusted authors and maintainers that something meets the quality standards and relevance

That's quite an admission and contradicts other claims on this page that WP's notability guidelines are objective. And neither quality standards nor relevance are the same as notability -- it's almost as if this person has no idea what he's talking about and is simply doing apologetics for a position that he's planted his flag on.

> It's not reddit, there's no upvotes or downvotes.

Silly bad faith strawman. The complaints from people like Ginger Bill (which I don't necessarily endorse or agree with) are about gatekeeping, and the previous comment gave that away.

> I know that's difficult to understand in an age where everyone thinks they're right because they yell loud enough.

Bad faith smug hypocritical virtue signaling.

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want Wikipedia editors to start citing YouTube videos? I'll tell you what will happen if sourcing standards are loosened in that way. You'll get tons of editors arguing, "So and so said this at 21:45 in this podcast." And then someone else will say, "But he said this other thing that contradicts that at 22:30." And then a third editor will come along and say the person was just joking. The signal-to-noise in t…

> Those "weird websites" have a reputation one can track. Do they? I mean, I don't track them. But as an example, let's use CBC. They've published nearly a redaction per day on their stories... https://www.cbc.ca/news/corrections-clarifications-1.5893564 They're a government run, public broadcaster and they're this poor... But they're an acceptable Wikipedia source. Meanwhile, someone like the Primeagen has 1.15 mill…

Publishing retractions is a sign of reliability. Wikipedia is actually more concerned about sources that don't publish retractions.

If Odin is so notable, why haven't any of the normal tech publications ever mentioned it? One company using it does not necessarily make it notable.

> Remember, CNN and all the "trusted" news outlets also have YouTube accounts.

And those YouTube accounts are not considered reliable sources by Wikipedia. In fact, basically only CNN's published articles are considered reliable.

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be great if Wikipedia's notability goes "All youtube sources are not reliable" but instead its always phrased like "Some Youtube sources are not reliable" and what qualifies as this "some" is usually decided by the personal bias of the admins. You can read the policy yourself[1]. It doesn’t seem unreasonable to me at all. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Video_links

It does not seem unreasonable to me as well and I do not recall stating that being the case. I only mentioned the YouTube scenario, but that's pretty much the case for almost everything. I'll repeat it again: it all boils down to the personal bias of the admins, and you seem to agree with that as well.

I don’t agree, because no evidence of bias has been advanced. They might be biased, but the plain reading of the situation of that (1) Odin is not notable under GNG, (2) JangaFX might be notable, but notability isn’t transitive.

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those "weird websites" have a reputation one can track. Do they? I mean, I don't track them. But as an example, let's use CBC. They've published nearly a redaction per day on their stories... https://www.cbc.ca/news/corrections-clarifications-1.5893564 They're a government run, public broadcaster and they're this poor... But they're an acceptable Wikipedia source. Meanwhile, someone like the Primeagen has 1.15 mill…

Publishing retractions is a sign of reliability. Wikipedia is actually more concerned about sources that don't publish retractions. If Odin is so notable, why haven't any of the normal tech publications ever mentioned it? One company using it does not necessarily make it notable. > Remember, CNN and all the "trusted" news outlets also have YouTube accounts. And those YouTube accounts are not considered reliable sourc…

> the normal tech publications

Name 1 "normal tech publication" that anyone reads that covers programming languages.

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can only speak from my personal experience, I have made a scratchpad app within Odin and it was the first language that I picked for because I wanted C-esque speed and gui libraries being built in and I even used LLM's to write the whole thing to see LLM's capabilities. After a lot back and forth though, it was able to make it. I might link it but my point is that calling Odin niche might be same as calling every C a…

I don't think anyone doubts that odin is a real programming language that you can make something in. The part that is doubtful is that it enjoys any level of popularity.

Popularity is a bit subjective though as popularity also determines on all the projects built in that said language. Zig got a lot more popular because of the projects that have/had been built on it (Tigerbeetle/Bun) which signaled production-esque use of Zig.

I do understand what you are saying though and I don't think that I have a meaningful thing to add in that and Odin is relatively popular within some circles but the question seems to be if its popular (enough*)

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#417

I'm sure the Wikipedia mods have many great, valid reasons for deleting articles. Unfortunately for the ignorant masses, this has bad optics, since it looks like it runs counter to their goal of "cataloging all human knowledge".

But the goal isn't to catalogue all human knowledge. Having an article for every living person would be "cataloguing all human knowledge" but it would also be a meaningless endeavour. Some knowledge is worth preserving in an encyclopedia, other knowledge isn't. That is why they have their notability guidelines.

That is obviously no longer the goal. It hasn’t been for years now. However, its original goal was to provide “every person on the planet free access to the sum of all human knowledge“.

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can just strip out any problematic content and protect it. At least leave the lede and the infobox and whatever else can be salvaged. Deleting the article means you can't even see the edit history to see why it was deleted. Whatever good work was done by other editors is gone cannot be built on. It's extreme.

> Deleting the article means you can't even see the edit history to see why it was deleted. You can see why it was deleted without that. Picking an example deleted article; the very first line, in a red box, is the deletion log entry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xpanceo > 00:57, 28 June 2026 .... deleted page Xpanceo (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Xpanceo (...)) Click on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ar…

The article was for a public company. There are not many viagra companies that go public, except for Pfizer.

Deletion should be reserved for cases where the entire edit history is worthless or must be deleted for legal reasons etc. Articles on notable subjects where editors have put genuine work into editing them at some point should not be deleted.

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for the citogensis problem. https://xkcd.com/978/ what's the gate being kept and by whom?

The gate is reliable secondary sources . These sources, for the most part, don't check their facts using Wikipedia. These sources also tend to have feedback mechanisms, so if they have make a mistake , their response is to correct it in a timely fashion. This is what makes them reliable in Wikipedians' judgement. A publication that regularly made errors, or published claims regardless of veracity, or left errors in p…

Kevin was real proud of the fact that he managed to do that before he passed.

Re: Odin, Wikipedia and engagement farming

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Publishing retractions is a sign of reliability. Wikipedia is actually more concerned about sources that don't publish retractions. If Odin is so notable, why haven't any of the normal tech publications ever mentioned it? One company using it does not necessarily make it notable. > Remember, CNN and all the "trusted" news outlets also have YouTube accounts. And those YouTube accounts are not considered reliable sourc…

> the normal tech publications Name 1 "normal tech publication" that anyone reads that covers programming languages.

This took me approximately two seconds to find: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/02/linux-leaders-pave-a...
Post reply on HN