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EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

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Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#161

Post by vrganj »

vintermann wrote: post #144
vrganj wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, another key fact to bring up here once again: The institution that forced this through is the EU Council, the body that represents national governments and is composed of heads of government . The reason they have to force it through and couldn't do 2.0 is because the EU Parliament stopped them. In other words, it's the nation states that want this and the EU institutions that are blocking it, not the other way…

That's a completely backward way of seeing it. "Nations" want nothing. The EU council is obviously an EU institution, the institution least accountable to the people of the EU. They want it and force it through as best they can. The parliament, the EU institution most accountable to the people of the EU (not that it's saying much) tried to stop it.

Of course Nations want this.

Who is in the Council? You are saying "nuh-uh", but not addressing any of the substance of my comment.

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#162

Post by rpdillon »

jwr wrote: post #57
petcat wrote: post #7

Am I crazy or is this website not allowing me to opt out of cookie tracking unless I sign up for a subscription? I know the EU cookie banners have basically ruined the internet, but this seems like a whole 'nother level of obnoxious.

As a reminder "EU cookie banners" are not required if you use cookies for site functionality. They are only required if your site uses these to track users. This needs repeating, it's a common misconception (deliberately spread by many, too) that the EU requires cookie banners for all cookies.

This gets repeated a lot, but is not my experience after having worked with both in-house and contracted lawyers to understand how functional cookies are handled. We end up wanting something more durable than session cookies to track user preferences so we can set them next time they visit. This is super standard light/dark mode, region, language type of stuff. But that's considered “tracking" in many of these discussions, which never made sense to me.

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#163

Post by mdp2021 »

varispeed wrote: post #123

This would be illegal in Germany. I wonder why law enforcement is not looking into this. It is similar to having abusive husband control wife's communication - just at scale and for ideological reason. This is a violent act against whole population, applied indiscriminately. It fulfils updated definition of terrorism in Germany and it is exploiting legislative apparatus of the EU to enact this violent act. German peo…

Don't you also have it in the Constitution? In your case, it could probably construed as part of Article 1 (I may be confused).

For others, it is explicit in the Articles.

> these people behind it should be investigated and presumably arrested

Are you talking about the eu organs? (Because it does seem linear, but paradoxical, and surely not outside a thought legal framework.)

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#164

Post by wartywhoa23 »

greenavocado wrote: post #109
cryo32 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I genuinely don’t think such folk have as much influence and power as everyone thinks. In my (direct) experience it’s just a complete mess and they’re reacting naively to every problem. They’re fighting a battle against the real problem which is the paid up influence campaigns that give them problems to defend. Start at the press, the social media companies and the think tanks.

They form these groups to network and do favors for each other and provide cover for each other. After a while you are asked to do increasingly compromising things to yourself to do deeper into/stay part of the club such as blood rituals. Bohemian Grove high priest Henry Kissinger led simulated animal sacrifice rituals attended by many others in the "inner circles" of the top strata of decision makers and wallet hold…

> They do this because engaging in a common taboo unites the group extremely strongly

Nothing unites the scum stronger than a guaranteed scorching pan in hell for all of them.

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#165

Post by Rexxar »

sunaookami wrote: post #133
vrganj wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call it what it is: Propaganda designed to stir anti-EU sentiment from groups that would benefit from being able to divide and conquer Europe.

You see an article about how the EU tries to force a law after it got struck down by forcing it through with a legal trick and all you can think of is how any comment that critizes this is propaganda? Get a grip

EU doesn't tries to force a law. Some politicians does. EU is just a group of institutions.

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#166

Post by mdp2021 »

cbg0 wrote: post #97
sunshine-o wrote: post #5

At that point it has become clear to most Europe is not a democracy anymore. It has lost any legitimacy.

Talk about overreacting.

Many of us judge that the authoritativeness of most states and organizations is at a staggeringly low point.

The reaction may not be tied to a single event.

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#167

Post by mdp2021 »

pessimizer wrote: post #139
stavros wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the mere fact that the EU is trying to pass laws to erode privacy indicate that there is privacy to erode? The US doesn't need to pass such laws because there are no protections.

> The US doesn't need to pass such laws because there are no protections. The US desperately needs fundamental definitions and protections in regard to privacy, but the fact that it is extremely common for European countries to prosecute illegal speech and associations is a big difference. Americans are trying to defend themselves against the secondary effects of surveillance. Europeans can just jail you for saying m…

> Europeans can be prosecuted for sharing any

Could you provide more details?

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#168

Post by jasonvorhe »

philjohn wrote: post #141
neobrain wrote: post #49

For context, this refers to "Chat Control 1.0", allowing facebook and other messaging providers to scan chats for harmful content (which they had been temporarily allowed to do by a recently expired law). This is still problematic, but the far more dangerous Chat Control 2.0 that would weaken end-to-end-encrypted messengers like Signal is not being discussed here. Not to diminish the gravity of the new development, b…

IIRC they used to catch a lot of child groomers by scanning messages.

If any of this was about protecting children, that Epstein thing wouldn't have been buried and forgotten already.

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#169

Post by sampo »

vrganj wrote: post #87
mattrighetti wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re indirectly elected through national governments and parliament. That’s different from being directly elected by citizens. Being appointed by elected politicians doesn’t make someone directly accountable to voters. Citizens don’t vote for commissioners, and it’s much harder for voters to remove or reward them based on their policies.

So is the US president (Electoral College), the UK PM (Parliament) etc etc, yet you never hear complaints here from the same types. Their opposition is ideological, democracy is just an excuse because their true views would be too unsavory to say out loud.

> So is the US president (Electoral College)

It has never happened, but if there once would be enough faithless electors to swing the election (choosing a different president than what people voted for) it would be a huge scandal and it would be widely condemned as undemocratic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#170

Post by vlian2088 »

abroszka33 wrote: post #45

There is no way to stop these so just lets get going. The sooner we have age and ID verification on every single website and app the sooner we will have a working decentralised internet that avoids it.

governments can (and will) shut down or fine the detractors.
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