Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#181

Post by jbooth » Thu, Dec 06, 2012, 12:25 AM UTC

saraid216 wrote: post #175

temphn wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm. Russian state-owned enterprises did not end with Stalin, and Chinese state-owned enterprises did not end with Mao. Many of them continue through to the present day and are not setting the world on fire. I should note that I agree that Romney probably did not know much about Tesla besides the name. But most politicians don't know much about technology. Last I looked, I believe we have only one scientist in the e…

> But most politicians don't know much about technology. Last I looked, I believe we have only one scientist in the entire House of Representatives (Rush Holt, D-NJ?). I wish everyone who thought, "I wish people in office were more like me" actually ran for office. That's the best way to get people like you in office. Age requirement for the House is only 25.

And money requirement is several million dollars, plus connections all over your district, in practice.

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#182

Post by saraid216 » Thu, Dec 06, 2012, 12:53 AM UTC

jbooth wrote: post #181

saraid216 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But most politicians don't know much about technology. Last I looked, I believe we have only one scientist in the entire House of Representatives (Rush Holt, D-NJ?). I wish everyone who thought, "I wish people in office were more like me" actually ran for office. That's the best way to get people like you in office. Age requirement for the House is only 25.

And money requirement is several million dollars, plus connections all over your district, in practice.

How many people are in your district, why don't they think you're electable, and why can't they donate a dollar if they do?

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#183

Post by Aloisius » Thu, Dec 06, 2012, 1:01 AM UTC

endersshadow wrote: post #41

jervisfm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the difference between the two ? Don't you need to have a net positive flow in order to be profitable ?

Great question! The answer is a resounding no! Also, just because you're profitable doesn't mean you have a positive cash flow! Profit is what's called Net Income (for argument's sake, let's do EBIT--Earnings Before Income Taxes). Cash flow is simply your delta in cash from one period to the next. Lots of things go into net income, but essentially it's revenue minus costs. Because of GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounti…

EBIT is Earnings before Interest & Taxes, not Earnings before Income Taxes.

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#184

Post by temp453463343 » Thu, Dec 06, 2012, 1:09 AM UTC

jlgreco wrote: post #179

temp453463343 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was always under the impression that Europeans love land yachts. (like those kids in Sweden that collect old US cars) It was just the crazy fuel prices that stopped them from buying them.

My understanding is that large cars are difficult on many of their roads, particularly in some towns/cities.

good point. There are some crazy narrow streets. The bus drivers are insane. Like half of a foot of clearance between the wheels and the curb on each side.

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#185

Post by cclark20 » Thu, Dec 06, 2012, 1:23 AM UTC

dave1619 wrote: post #86

Tesla Motors is in great shape. I've been following the company for a while and recently drove the Model S. Amazing car in almost every way. What struck me was that it's not an incremental improvement but really a radical (might I say disruptive) improvement in terms of ride quality (super quiet), handling (low center of gravity with skateboard powertrain), electronics (17" touchscreen), cargo space (heard of the fru…

I wonder if car companies are going to be looking at lessons from the tech world specifically Apple and Microsoft and think: Ok maybe these guys ARE the new apple of car companies ... We don't want to be the microsoft of car companies so let's innovate instead of dying. I know innovation isn't exactly at the heart of the car companies but these guys can't be living in a total vacuum. Every single publication in the world is likening Tesla to Apple. The significance and parallels can't be lost on them. I would be really surprised if BMW & Lexus & Audi don't come out with their own competitive answer. Unless it's already too late?

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#186

Post by jbooth » Thu, Dec 06, 2012, 1:30 AM UTC

saraid216 wrote: post #182

jbooth wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And money requirement is several million dollars, plus connections all over your district, in practice.

How many people are in your district, why don't they think you're electable, and why can't they donate a dollar if they do?

Approx 700k people in most congressional districts.

I've actually ran in and won an election at the local level back when I lived in massachusetts. So I'm familiar with the process. Are you? How do you get your message out to that many people without money? How do you beat an established incumbent with a ton of relationships and a warchest? Knocking on doors doesn't do it at that level.

If you're feeling idealistic, get involved yourself next cycle. I usually do. Find a candidate you like and volunteer for them, you'll accomplish a little good and learn a lot about what campaigns do, make some connections in the process. It generally involves cold-calling households and knocking on doors.

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#187

Post by weisser » Thu, Dec 06, 2012, 1:51 AM UTC

Any innovation from regular car companies will be the result of intrapreneurship. Tesla was built to do things differently.

It will take a massive company-wide change in philosophy for these other car companies to compete with Tesla, but even then they will be dealing with an entire workforce that is used to the old way of doing things. They might not intentionally resist the change-it may just be an issue of being able to adapt to it.

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#188

Post by calinet6 » Thu, Dec 06, 2012, 2:43 AM UTC

ryanhuff wrote: post #128

calinet6 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like saying that Sony can make an mp3 player, so the iPod isn't competitive in that market. Or that a 5GB iPod won't hold enough music, so it's just an expensive toy. Within 5-10 years the battery problem will improve, especially if there is demand. This is technology, not automotive development. We're not in Detroit anymore. They're in a different class. Tesla is set up to do it right from the start at a muc…

Its a bit presumptuous to say that Tesla is so different. Sure, they are attractive at the moment because of unique niche they are filling. If BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Acura, etc all sold an all-electric vehicle with similar range, Tesla's differentiation becomes much less unique, and normal competitive factors come into play (scale, marketing, etc).

It's a bit presumptious to say that Apple is any different. Sure they are attractive at the moment because of the unique niche they are filling. If Sony, HP, Dell, Acer, Gateway, Lenovo, etc all sold a laptop with similar specs, Apple's differentiation becomes much less unique, and normal competitive factors come into play (scale, marketing, etc).

So tell me, does that still hold water?

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#189

Post by calinet6 » Thu, Dec 06, 2012, 2:45 AM UTC

muhfuhkuh wrote: post #142

el_cuadrado wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Main function of a car is to move a group of people from point A to point B. Tesla is getting good at it, provided point A and point B are not too far apart, and pint B has an electric charger available. And that is a pretty critical limitation so far. Jumping on your slightly irrelevant analogies, it is like iPod 5 with a batter that can only hold charge for 30 minutes, and can only charged at Apple store.

No. It would be an iPod 5 that would work on your commute to and from work, quite a few places in between for groceries and errands, then pick up dinner, then back home where you would naturally charge things. You don't have to charge your Tesla at the Tesla dealership. And, seriously, if you make dozens of unpredictable stops in your day, I'll grant you, an electric car might not be for you. But, I don't think I've…

Lifestyle changes might be necessary. But it might be worth it.

Re: Tesla Was Cash Flow Positive Last Week, CEO Musk Says

#190

Post by wisty » Thu, Dec 06, 2012, 2:47 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #54

ChuckMcM wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being operationally cash flow positive means that on a day to day basis your bank balance is increasing. Being profitable means that all of the money comes in in greater than your total costs. So for example, if you look at HP's write down, they were operationally cash flow positive for the quarter but are 'writing off' 8+ billion dollars. So they "lost" over $8B this quarter. Aka not profitable during the quarter. S…

So to put it simply, cash flow is like a differential of profit? So you can have a profit of -1M$, but as long as the next month you get more (like -0.8M$), you're cash flow positive (+0.2M$), right? I'm having trouble parsing the examples given in this thread; the above sounds like what I more-less understood from them.

No, cash flow and profit are both differentials of net value. But they are both noisy.

Ideally, profit abstracts away all the messy details of cash flow. If you buy a new robot, that's not a loss, that's an investment, so your profit shouldn't change (until the robot starts depreciating). So profit (not cashflow) is a better metric. On the other hand, you don't know that the robot will really be useful, so maybe cashflow is better.