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EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

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Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#71

Post by mdp2021 »

Lio wrote: post #63
stavros wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have been enjoying a succulent Chinese meal.

Yeah and Peter Hummelgaard is about to touch you on the penis. > "We must break with the totally erroneous perception that it is everyone's civil liberty to communicate on encrypted messaging services," What an arsehole. https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/danish-justice...

Does that ###, which seems to have the most simplistic ideas about the world, also have arguments to defend its position?

I mean: has it ever heard, for example about the 2nd Amendment to the USA constitution, arguing that people must be able to defend from governments themselves?

Is it not aware that data is not accessed "just by the good guys"? ?!

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#72

Post by mattrighetti »

surgical_fire wrote: post #56
joe_mamba wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The central bank, council, and commission have to get thoroughly investigated. By WHO?! They are THE (unelected) ruling elite. Who's gonna prosecute them?

They are not unelected. The EU Council is made up of the head of government of each member state. They are all elected. The commissioners are picked by the heads of state (elected) and the EU parliament (also elected). This does not absolve them from wrongdoing, but you should understand where your complaints should be directed at.

They’re indirectly elected through national governments and parliament. That’s different from being directly elected by citizens. Being appointed by elected politicians doesn’t make someone directly accountable to voters. Citizens don’t vote for commissioners, and it’s much harder for voters to remove or reward them based on their policies.

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#73

Post by flumpcakes »

superkuh wrote: post #6

The same as every other fascist control measure. Voted down. Voted down. Voted down. Then forced through through some obscure mechanism bypassing the will of the people and becoming law forever.

> Then forced through through some obscure mechanism bypassing

It was extending a recently expired law that has existed since 2011.

I don't think your comment is reflecting on what has actually happened. "Chat Control" as people know it has not passed into law.

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#74

Post by vrganj »

surgical_fire wrote: post #62
neobrain wrote: post #49

For context, this refers to "Chat Control 1.0", allowing facebook and other messaging providers to scan chats for harmful content (which they had been temporarily allowed to do by a recently expired law). This is still problematic, but the far more dangerous Chat Control 2.0 that would weaken end-to-end-encrypted messengers like Signal is not being discussed here. Not to diminish the gravity of the new development, b…

Those narratives pop up from users that have a clear anti-EU bias (and I suspect they might not even be from the EU considering how ignorant they seem to be about how it works, its function ans structure, etc.

Call it what it is: Propaganda designed to stir anti-EU sentiment from groups that would benefit from being able to divide and conquer Europe.

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#75

Post by joe_mamba »

surgical_fire wrote: post #67
joe_mamba wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They are not unelected. After how many layers does the democratic part get watered down and is just members of the elite picking other elites? Role | Chosen by | Direct citizen vote? -----------------------------+------------------------------------------------------+---------------------------- Commission President | European Council proposes, European Parliament elects| No (indirect via EP) European Council Presid…

I live in a country where the prime minister is picked by the parliament. I don't directly vote for him. By your own ridiculous standards, I don't live in a democracy. I fact, any paliamentarism would not be democratic based on that.

>I live in a country where the prime minister is picked by the parliament. I don't directly vote for him.

That's kind of whataboutism. If that works for your country and the people are happy with the arrangement and the results of this system, I don't see an issue.

>By your own ridiculous standards

I don't think direct accountability to the citizens is a ridiculous concept. If you're unhappy with a MEP, your prime minister, you can vote them out or protest till they quit. But the head of the EC, Ursula, is impossible to dethrone by the people via democratic vote or protest. You're stuck taking up the ass from someone you never voted for and don't support.

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#76

Post by cryo32 »

junto wrote: post #39
m132 wrote: post #27

The central bank, council, and commission have to get thoroughly investigated. The amount of questionable decisions coming from those three in the recent (15) years is extremely unsettling. The parliament and courts are practically the only institutions preventing things from hitting the fan at this point, and struggling to do so, it seems.

I’m convinced of widespread corruption here. We need to follow the money. Who is funding and pushing this agenda to blanket spy on all Europeans? I guess my question is rhetorical.

I don’t think it’s a conspiracy or corruption. It’s just design by committee bureaucracy. It always fails into that state.

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#78

Post by joe_mamba »

surgical_fire wrote: post #62
neobrain wrote: post #49

For context, this refers to "Chat Control 1.0", allowing facebook and other messaging providers to scan chats for harmful content (which they had been temporarily allowed to do by a recently expired law). This is still problematic, but the far more dangerous Chat Control 2.0 that would weaken end-to-end-encrypted messengers like Signal is not being discussed here. Not to diminish the gravity of the new development, b…

Those narratives pop up from users that have a clear anti-EU bias (and I suspect they might not even be from the EU considering how ignorant they seem to be about how it works, its function ans structure, etc.

>users that have a clear anti-EU bias

If a government body wants to interfere in your privacy and take it away, isn't it normal to be against that government body pushing that policy?

It's not a bias, it's just a normal common sense reaction to tyrannical behavior, and pushing against that government body is the only way to enact the positive change you want to see.

Otherwise if you just bend over and take it all the time, just so randos on the internet don't accuse you of being "anti-EU", then nothing will change and you'll see more and more of your rights taken away. And even if it were "EU bias" it's my right as an EU citizen and taxpayer to have it if I want to.

Alos BTW, what's with this defensive attitude of treating the EU like some sacred cow that's somehow beyond reproach HN? Are they paying you guys to AstroTurf or what?

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#79

Post by everyone »

cryo32 wrote: post #76
junto wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m convinced of widespread corruption here. We need to follow the money. Who is funding and pushing this agenda to blanket spy on all Europeans? I guess my question is rhetorical.

I don’t think it’s a conspiracy or corruption. It’s just design by committee bureaucracy. It always fails into that state.

And no committee, no bureaucracy, no regulations, just let corporations do whatever they want, works great right!? It's not like it immediately collapses to despotism as the slightly bigger fish gobbles up everything in a positive feedback process.

With an egalitarian government, corruption is a problem, its bad, its something we try to fight and there are mechanisms to do so. Having no government is just giving up and going straight to 100% corruption.

Re: EU Council forces Chat Control via fast-track

#80

Post by Carbon1603 »

stavros wrote: post #8
petcat wrote: post #7

Am I crazy or is this website not allowing me to opt out of cookie tracking unless I sign up for a subscription? I know the EU cookie banners have basically ruined the internet, but this seems like a whole 'nother level of obnoxious.

Wow, yeah, that seems... illegal, no?

Nope, completely legal.
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