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Europe's new climate in seven charts

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Re: Europe's new climate in seven charts

#131

Post by inigyou »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #123
inigyou wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What action will you take to ensure next year it's only 85F?

You can’t. All you can do is realize every trip you take and every bite of beef is yet another drop in the bucket. Every vote for a denialist is probably worth 100s of burgers too, sad to say. You must choose if your hedonism outweighs the good of our biosphere now and in future. The billions of unborn humans. The trillions of innocent life forms that might go extinct. That blue bird or cardinal in the yard with no A…

There are some actions people can take that create massively outsized consequences. The CEOs of oil companies take many of these.

Re: Europe's new climate in seven charts

#132

Post by inigyou »

argentinian wrote: post #116
inigyou wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop burning fossil fuels? It's pretty easy actually, if you were god-emperor of the world you could structure it in a way where very few fossil fuels have to be burnt. But nobody is god-emperor of the world, nobody is even god-emperor of most countries or even most large companies, people are barely president of most countries or large companies and that's the problem.

So we need a benign world emperor. And there's the risk of an evil world emperor.

We could start by letting companies have emperors, instead of letting the financial market be the emperor of almost every company.

How's Valve Software doing?

Re: Europe's new climate in seven charts

#133

Post by stinkbeetle »

defrost wrote: post #80
stinkbeetle wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA is around 18th country in CO2 emissions per capita, and has reduced emissions per capita around as much as the combined EU since 2000, or a little more. Can't see how some random politician is "to blame", that's pretty absurd claim, and not supported by the claimed evidence.

And the consumption habits of the USA are responsible for how many more tonnes of CO2 emissions that are not onshore within the USA ? The USA was far and away the very worst global source for a very long time, that only changed by offshoring the processing and manufacture that feeds US consumption.

> And the consumption habits of the USA are responsible for how many more tonnes of CO2 emissions that are not onshore within the USA ?

Probably quite a few thanks to globalist politicians among all major political parties to offshore production to countries with fewer regulations and much higher emissions intensity of production. But it would not be the highest emissions per capita.

Much the same as the EU.

The handwringing and self-flagellation still does not suffice for actual evidence for blaming one idiot politician in one country performing a political stunt. You clowns think this is a Captain Planet cartoon where there's a few evil moustache twirling dudes setting out to wreck the environment and you just need to defeat them and everyone around the world joins hands and its smooth sailing for the rest of eternity. You must be forever bewildered about the state of the world and shocked at the news of completely normal and foreseeable things happening, like energy being very valuable, and people wanting to buy things cheaply. I can assure you if Mr. Snowball here had never been born, there would be absolutely no difference to the current situation. If the North American landmass did not exist at all, fossil fuel use would still be causing the same kind of global carbon pollution.

> The USA was far and away the very worst global source for a very long time, that only changed by offshoring the processing and manufacture that feeds US consumption.

Petrostates have been much worse by emissions per capita.

Re: Europe's new climate in seven charts

#134

Post by argentinian »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #117
argentinian wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voters also don't care much. You might say that rich people and politicians have more responsibility because they have more power for making changes, but politicians are chosen by voters, and wealth doesn't make people more ethical

So I've thought about this a lot. All the news orgs are owned by oligarchs and that's why even on this thread using green energy is equal to going back to stone age When China India and now Phillipines and rest of South Asia is installing record number of solar and wind

What do you think about the concept of "externalities", making producers of excessive contaminating gases pay for it because they are harming the planet?

Re: Europe's new climate in seven charts

#135

Post by inigyou »

IshKebab wrote: post #119
inigyou wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What action would be taken by who?

There are literally hundreds of actions that could be (or in some cases have been) taken. I think the vast majority need to be taken by the government. Individuals mainly need to to support and demand these actions from the government, and punch climate change deniers in the face. E.g. 1. Stick to their plan to ban ICE car sales by 2030. 2. Unban on-shore wind power (Labour did this! Not that anyone noticed...) 3. Ma…

Then I think the answer to your question is that the government is corrupt and paid off by oil companies and other interests to not do these things. So they will not happen.

Re: Europe's new climate in seven charts

#136

Post by iso1631 »

intended wrote: post #73
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. It's really as simple as this: Southern climates are moving north. (In the northern hemisphere.) If you want a vision of the future, consider a New England that looks more like the Southeast. There will be winners and losers. As climate zones move toward the poles, weather patterns and agricultural viability will shift with them. This will eventually turn current breadbaskets into deserts while warming up northe…

This is… one way to look at the death of billions, the end of nations, and the collapse of society due to the ensuing refugee crises. Not to forget, we are dependent on the food web. These changes mean species will be wiped out, fishing stocks will crash, and invasive will spread. Since you are likely in the developed world, tropical temps in Europe would mean refurbishment of houses. People won’t remember things lik…

> the collapse of society due to the ensuing refugee crises

This is what worries me.

At some point more northern facing countries will decide enough is enough and start mass genocide of any population attempting to flee.

Europe will be ok with just killing a few hundred million trying to flee in boats, and the eastern frontier is securable, especially with drones, but even with conscripts. Hell Ukraine has done a solid job on its own against an organised army on its doorstep.

America will act as a buffer for Canada and will have no problem with wiping out refugees. Argentina will be interesting but it's too small and isolated to matter globally.

The big global risk is that India and Pakistan have nukes and will be trying to flee into China and central Asia.

Setting aside refugees, far bigger risk for Europe isn't reurbishment of housing, it's tropical diseases in the south, it's the collapse of food security, and the general collapse of society as the economy falls over.

Re: Europe's new climate in seven charts

#137

Post by abroszka33 »

yde_java wrote: post #112
Yokolos wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you research past heat waves? We're literally setting new heat records nearly every year. This year the heat record in Germany went from 39 degrees to 42. We're even setting night time heat records because of how bad it is. I don't understand the impulse to ignore what we're experiencing right now. What do you gain by sticking your head in the sand?

Ask your grandparents about "Die große Dürre 1947" in Germany. Near entirely dried-up rivers and reservoirs, lakes three meters below normal, roughly half a million cattle emergency-slaughtered in Bavaria, hydroelectric shutdowns forcing power rationing, and forest fires along the Bavarian–Austrian border. Sure we have an all time high now, but currently there's still too much water as one could stick their head into…

That used to be once in a lifetime event. Now we have temperatures like that two or three times every decade and soon it's going to be a normal summer temperature.

Re: Europe's new climate in seven charts

#138

Post by Aachen »

notrealyme123 wrote: post #5
inigyou wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People one or two generations before you felt that about the cold war.

I think thats the wrong level of abstraction. The cold war ended, but clima change will not end.

Of course it will. There is a finite amount of fossil fuels and it'll become uneconomical to use before those are fully exhausted. Give it some more years (say, a few hundred) after the last car fleet and power plant switched away and the climate will have triggered any tipping points it's going to tip. Then the animals that haven't adapted will soon have finished going extinct, the ocean finished warming up with its lag effect, and climate change is finished changing

After that it's 'over' no? The world map is redrawn (many countries' shapes will look different), people that needed to move have moved or got killed (quite possibly by territorial humans refusing to let them onto livable land), but it'll settle into a new normal eventually

Re: Europe's new climate in seven charts

#139

Post by astral_drama »

swiftcoder wrote: post #87
rsynnott wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fairly well-known phenomenon, and sometimes comes up in geoengineering discussions. It’s dangerous ground; thing about fine particulate matter is you generally don’t want to breathe it.

Ideally we would want a fine particulate that stays high in the atmosphere, and doesn't come down where we need to breathe

Fine particulates aren't a problem if you wear a gas mask though.

Re: Europe's new climate in seven charts

#140

Post by stavros »

Sharlin wrote: post #61
bob001 wrote: post #39

And yet many Europeans will still argue that ACs are evil and they shouldn't have them despite an estimated 175k heat related deaths per year. Although maybe this heat wave will change some minds.

Always fun, having to fight a problem caused by X by doing more X. At least there’s the silver lining that solar production and the need for AC go hand in hand.

The problem wasn't caused by air conditioning, it was caused by burning fossil fuels. Perhaps we could find a way to have air conditioning without burning fossil fuels?
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