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AI has torched the market for junior programmers

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Re: AI has torched the market for junior programmers

#61

Post by tjwebbnorfolk »

m00x wrote: post #35

I've interviewed a ton of junior engineers. Our company was senior-heavy and we're just now diversifying. 80% of them should reconsider their career paths. They glaringly cheat during interviews, they can't answer basic software questions, and they're clearly in it just for the money. They were never interested in software. They just saw the success of software engineers that put in a lot of work, and were fooled by…

I've been programming for 25 years now because I really like it. But if it didn't pay, I'd do something else, because I really like not being poor even more.

Re: AI has torched the market for junior programmers

#62

Post by cosmodisk »

awepofiwaop wrote: post #42
m00x wrote: post #35

I've interviewed a ton of junior engineers. Our company was senior-heavy and we're just now diversifying. 80% of them should reconsider their career paths. They glaringly cheat during interviews, they can't answer basic software questions, and they're clearly in it just for the money. They were never interested in software. They just saw the success of software engineers that put in a lot of work, and were fooled by…

> they're clearly in it just for the money That's often how jobs work. I happen to like my job, but let's not pretend like everyone is going to make sufficient money following their most passionate interests.

I'm yet to meet anyone even remotely associated with tech ( let's call it all IT) that is good and only cares about money. Debugging code at for 8 hours straight is most people's hell on earth but some people love it and that love doesn't come through paycheck alone.

Re: AI has torched the market for junior programmers

#63

Post by coderatlarge »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #59
m00x wrote: post #35

I've interviewed a ton of junior engineers. Our company was senior-heavy and we're just now diversifying. 80% of them should reconsider their career paths. They glaringly cheat during interviews, they can't answer basic software questions, and they're clearly in it just for the money. They were never interested in software. They just saw the success of software engineers that put in a lot of work, and were fooled by…

To be fair junior developers almost universally kinda suck and you have to teach them the job. They'll take 10x the time to do a job a senior would, and do it in a way that is much more complicated than it needs to be. The reason you bother with them is and has always been to create future senior engineers that understand your business well enough to ensure business continuity.

testing is the new coding

Re: AI has torched the market for junior programmers

#64

Post by j45 »

Junior devs will need different skills. One will actually like being near a keyboard, and doing it as much for passion as profession/profit.

The people who are succeeding are learning and playing and building their own experience they can demonstrate.

There's few shortcuts if any that last. It comes out in the wash quicker.

On the senior end there remains a gap and advantage between understanding of human vs understanding of AI on how best to approach or work through things.

Re: AI has torched the market for junior programmers

#65

Post by Fraterkes »

m00x wrote: post #35

I've interviewed a ton of junior engineers. Our company was senior-heavy and we're just now diversifying. 80% of them should reconsider their career paths. They glaringly cheat during interviews, they can't answer basic software questions, and they're clearly in it just for the money. They were never interested in software. They just saw the success of software engineers that put in a lot of work, and were fooled by…

Alright, I’m at the start of my career but do have a genuine burning interest in programming. Am I fucked or not?

Re: AI has torched the market for junior programmers

#66

Post by sublinear »

oblio wrote: post #47
sublinear wrote: post #36

> These are marketers, founders, teachers, analysts, and product managers, and they are writing software, which in my book makes them developers. They just don't identify that way, and more importantly it's not their job title, and job titles are what labor statistics count. This makes perfect sense and is a net good. There were a ton of awful bloodsucking SaaS startups destroying progress for these niches. People wh…

> These are marketers, founders, teachers, analysts, and product managers, and they are writing software, which in my book makes them developers. We've always had people developing, in many forms. Scientists of all kinds, usually with Python, finance people with Excel, etc. I think that yes, they can go a lot farther now. So this will make the bottom of the software curve grow 10-100x. Now, the real question for deve…

Yes, and to be fair, I'm not saying those people that used to be behind the wheel at the "bloodsucking SaaS companies" are out of luck, or necessarily had bad intentions either.

This is just the natural next step towards a more mature kind of consulting. The client needs help scaling up their project or deploying it to the rest of their business. This is massive opportunity for any entrepreneur since the client is coming much better prepared.

Re: AI has torched the market for junior programmers

#68

Post by j45 »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #59
m00x wrote: post #35

I've interviewed a ton of junior engineers. Our company was senior-heavy and we're just now diversifying. 80% of them should reconsider their career paths. They glaringly cheat during interviews, they can't answer basic software questions, and they're clearly in it just for the money. They were never interested in software. They just saw the success of software engineers that put in a lot of work, and were fooled by…

To be fair junior developers almost universally kinda suck and you have to teach them the job. They'll take 10x the time to do a job a senior would, and do it in a way that is much more complicated than it needs to be. The reason you bother with them is and has always been to create future senior engineers that understand your business well enough to ensure business continuity.

Universities haven't kept up with the pace of change in software development in 1-3 years.

Too many if not most can't even change a single sentence in their curriculum in 1-2 years.

It doesn't mean University isn't worth it, it's worth less if you aren't self-directed learner building things.

Re: AI has torched the market for junior programmers

#69

Post by Loughla »

01100011 wrote: post #55
coderatlarge wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don’t condone cheating but i also don’t blame anyone who follows a generally benign career path for its financial benefits.

I wouldn't blame them either, but I sure as hell wouldn't hire them.

Why? If they do good work and meet or exceed expectations, who cares why they're doing it?

Re: AI has torched the market for junior programmers

#70

Post by coderatlarge »

01100011 wrote: post #55
coderatlarge wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don’t condone cheating but i also don’t blame anyone who follows a generally benign career path for its financial benefits.

I wouldn't blame them either, but I sure as hell wouldn't hire them.

I’ve seen passionate artisans waste way more time than focused, disciplined, mercenaries; i think it’s a situational choice
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