I wonder which spreadsheet manager assumed that if I am sick 1 day per month, I actually am also 1 day less productive.
I am not; the same amount of work gets done. Probably more because I’m not half-sick on the job for 3 days instead.
Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe
21–30 of 107 posts
Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's exactly right. This article [1] mentions 40% of sick days being from people with long-term (> 6 weeks) illnesses. That's data from one of Germany's large insurers. While I don't know the proportion of those with long-term illnesses, if we assume it's at most 10%, then the average for people with "normal" short-term illnesses is at most 12 days. So much lower. [1] https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/sind-die-deutsch…
> from one of Germany's large insurers Is this voluntary insurance? It changes meaning to the statistic to % from those that made an insurance.
I assume you mean there might be a self-selection issue with people who are voluntarily ("privately") insured, as compared to those who have the normal state-mandated ("gesetzlich") insurance?
This data is from AOK which is one of the state-mandated insurers. It insures around 2M people, and my gut feeling is that they are not terribly unrepresentative of the workforce as a whole.
But of course the point is, everyone with a tiny bit of true data could tell much more precise stories, and the journalists (as usual) didn't care or didn't think it would fly with readers.
Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe
#23Doctors in Germany love to put you off work for longer than necessary. Usually the whole week. I totally see that this will result in average going up instead of down.
Do people consult doctors to obtain medical leaves shorter than a week? It seems like a waste of time for everybody involved. Either the problem is bad enough that you need time off and you might as well round it up to a week, or the problem is benign enough that you don't need time off at all.
That's the whole point, before they would only need to do it on the fourth day of sickness, now you need to go to a doctor on the first day.
More workload for doctors and either sick people coming to the office infecting others, or getting the whole week off immediately.
Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe
#24I wonder if lost productivity from sick leave days is offset by preserved productivity of all coworkers that were not infected by people that felt obliged to show up sick with flu or other communicable disease.
We're about to find out! Not to mention all the doctors who'll be getting sick from hordes of people with basic cold and flu piling up in their practices. Man, Merz truly is a genius! You can tell he's had so much experience in normal jobs, truly understands the average worker's situation.
>Man, Merz truly is a genius! You can tell he's had so much experience in normal jobs, truly understands the average worker's situation.
What else do you expect from a Blackrock veteran and possible trojan horse?
Heck, I don't even blame him, same how I don't blame a scorpion for stinging the frog, it's just in its nature, I blame the Germans that voted for him. As a democracy, every such national fuckup(and they have a lot of those) is 100% on them and so are the consequences. You reap what you sow.
Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe
#25Yeah, I have no idea how any of these figures are derived, but... I have a hard time imagining a planet where 1.8 weeks of our Polish employees and 2.7 weeks of our Dutch employees are 'lost due to sick leave' per annum. Days? Maybe. Weeks? On average? Nah... But, please, do continue your explanations of "see, this is why Europe can't compete"
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Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe
#26Belgium law allows employers to enforce a sick note starting day 1.
I joined an employer that didn't require this, and it was such a breath of fresh air.
At our local doctor, the first 5 hours of his workday were comprised solely of writing notes for people to stay home.
It is a waste of (recovery) time to enforce everybody to get a note starting day one.
And describing the situation in the US on this to validate these changes is insane. Many people in the food business don't have paid sick leave, and as such lose pay when they don't come to work. And those people should absolutely have the ability to stay home without putting their finances in jeopardy. It should be a sign out front: we have paid sick leave for our people so they don't feel forced to come to work sick.
Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe
#27"As part of Merz's proposals, from January next year, workers will no longer be able to get a sick note over the phone. They must visit a doctor in person and on the first day of illness." Can't wait to share the sbahn with feverish people or seeing a live diarrhea attack.
> Can't wait to share the sbahn with feverish people or seeing a live diarrhea attack.
The 2 results I see from this change in policy is:
1. People go sick to work and possibly infect other people
2. Doctors give multi day sick notes (when 1 day would have been enough) to not be bothered again the next day, resulting in people being home longer when not needed.
I genuinely don't understand who looked at this policy change and thought "this will probably help with people working more". The only people that will be working more are the "Hausärzte".
Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe
#28These averages are insane!
yes. and driven by long term sicknesses like, for example, burnout, cancer, and work-related older age issues.
dropping phone-in sick calls will sure as hell end those /s
this whole package is driven by populist disinformation.
Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe
#29Looking at the OCED data per country, it's pretty clear that it has zero links with the economy
It's mostly cultural. In some countries like Germany, Sweden or Netherlands, it's normalized that if you wake up tired or hungover or have a sore throat, you just don't show up at work that day, but in others it's frowned up and your boomer parents and many peers will look at you like you're needlessly weak and avoiding your adult responsibilities by letting a little headache or sniff hold you back from your duties.
That's how you see Eastern Europe actually having much fewer sick days from work despite lower life expectancy and a less performant healthcare system than the west. The communist system and post-communist hardship from the economic collapse meant people had no chance but to work no matter what, if they wanted to eat that day. Not going to work because of a cold or headache or things like depression or burnout was unthinkable to the generation that grew up under those conditions and they perpetuated that mindset to Millennials too. Sick leave was only if something was falling off. That's why Eastern European immigrants who migrated west were so valued for their work ethic. Granted, now thanks to Gen-z things are changing for the better and are adopting the more nordic and ladi back mindset on work ethic.
Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's exactly right. This article [1] mentions 40% of sick days being from people with long-term (> 6 weeks) illnesses. That's data from one of Germany's large insurers. While I don't know the proportion of those with long-term illnesses, if we assume it's at most 10%, then the average for people with "normal" short-term illnesses is at most 12 days. So much lower. [1] https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/sind-die-deutsch…
> from one of Germany's large insurers Is this voluntary insurance? It changes meaning to the statistic to % from those that made an insurance.
In Germany you need an insurance, but you can choose which one. In Berlin at least I remember TK was the default, but you can choose others.