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Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe

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Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe

#11

Post by uniqueuid »

xen0 wrote: post #4

The reported average of 20 days is likely skewed by a small number of long leaves and I suspect* is nowhere near typical for the median worker (it's nearly taking a day off every two weeks). Longer leave already requires a doctor's approval so the proposal to require that for all leave is unlikely to change much other than drown doctors in more busy work. *I can't find much for the 'median' amount of leave taken per…

That's exactly right.

This article [1] mentions 40% of sick days being from people with long-term (> 6 weeks) illnesses. That's data from one of Germany's large insurers. While I don't know the proportion of those with long-term illnesses, if we assume it's at most 10%, then the average for people with "normal" short-term illnesses is at most 12 days. So much lower.

[1] https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/sind-die-deutschen-wirklich-h...

Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe

#13

Post by pfortuny »

xen0 wrote: post #4

The reported average of 20 days is likely skewed by a small number of long leaves and I suspect* is nowhere near typical for the median worker (it's nearly taking a day off every two weeks). Longer leave already requires a doctor's approval so the proposal to require that for all leave is unlikely to change much other than drown doctors in more busy work. *I can't find much for the 'median' amount of leave taken per…

I guess they do not understand the relevance of the median in this. They just take the average and think it is "good enough"...

Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe

#16

Post by uniqueuid »

pfortuny wrote: post #13
xen0 wrote: post #4

The reported average of 20 days is likely skewed by a small number of long leaves and I suspect* is nowhere near typical for the median worker (it's nearly taking a day off every two weeks). Longer leave already requires a doctor's approval so the proposal to require that for all leave is unlikely to change much other than drown doctors in more busy work. *I can't find much for the 'median' amount of leave taken per…

I guess they do not understand the relevance of the median in this. They just take the average and think it is "good enough"...

To be fair, the median is just as little information as the mean. We live in a world where ink is cheap, they should just show a histogram.

Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe

#17

Post by realaleris149 »

uniqueuid wrote: post #11
xen0 wrote: post #4

The reported average of 20 days is likely skewed by a small number of long leaves and I suspect* is nowhere near typical for the median worker (it's nearly taking a day off every two weeks). Longer leave already requires a doctor's approval so the proposal to require that for all leave is unlikely to change much other than drown doctors in more busy work. *I can't find much for the 'median' amount of leave taken per…

That's exactly right. This article [1] mentions 40% of sick days being from people with long-term (> 6 weeks) illnesses. That's data from one of Germany's large insurers. While I don't know the proportion of those with long-term illnesses, if we assume it's at most 10%, then the average for people with "normal" short-term illnesses is at most 12 days. So much lower. [1] https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/sind-die-deutsch…

> from one of Germany's large insurers

Is this voluntary insurance? It changes meaning to the statistic to % from those that made an insurance.

Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe

#18

Post by HiPhish »

anthonj wrote: post #9

"As part of Merz's proposals, from January next year, workers will no longer be able to get a sick note over the phone. They must visit a doctor in person and on the first day of illness." Can't wait to share the sbahn with feverish people or seeing a live diarrhea attack.

I had a migraine attack recently; I was able to call my doctor and have him write a sick note for a day over the phone and have it transmitted digitally to my employer. What the fuck would be the point of tormenting myself for half an hour on a noisy public bus in bright daylight in the middle of summer, the waiting in a bright room for half an hour, wait at the bus stop in bright daylight for up to an hour for the next bus back (since I don't know how long I will be at the doctor's office I cannot plan my trip back) and then torture myself for another half hour on the bus back?

It's not like the doctor can do anything but take my word for it when I'm in his office anyway. There is no migraine test you can run. So you might as well cut out all the bullshit and let me rest so I can recover better.

Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe

#19

Post by tredre3 »

xjrk58x wrote: post #12

Doctors in Germany love to put you off work for longer than necessary. Usually the whole week. I totally see that this will result in average going up instead of down.

Do people consult doctors to obtain medical leaves shorter than a week? It seems like a waste of time for everybody involved. Either the problem is bad enough that you need time off and you might as well round it up to a week, or the problem is benign enough that you don't need time off at all.

Re: Sick leave: Germany rising but not the worst in Europe

#20

Post by IveSeenItAll »

Yeah, I have no idea how any of these figures are derived, but... I have a hard time imagining a planet where 1.8 weeks of our Polish employees and 2.7 weeks of our Dutch employees are 'lost due to sick leave' per annum.

Days? Maybe. Weeks? On average? Nah... But, please, do continue your explanations of "see, this is why Europe can't compete"

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