International chess federation sanctions Kramnik • Hacker News Board

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#111

Post by Seattle3503 » Sat, Jul 04, 2026, 5:31 PM UTC

dwa3592 wrote: post #110

Seattle3503 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pangram’s market claims are very different from independent validations of the platform. Do you have a link to independent validations? The ones I found, like an upcoming nber paper confirm the companies claims.

https://github.com/deepanwadhwa/ai_detector_fails/blob/main/... the text in above is all ai generated. i uploaded a picture of two kittens to gemini and asked it to guess their age. then asked gemini to change the language to of someone who is born in deep Appalachia but has Japanese parents. then asked it to change the bullets to paragraphs written by someone who is talking fro life experience rather than grounded i…

You are talking about false negatives, but this thread started with a discussion around the potential for false positives causing writers anxiety

> Even if 2/10000 is true that’s nowhere near accurate enough to make aggressive accusations that create anxiety at levels people need to medicate with potentially fatal consequences.

False positives and false negatives are different problems that have different impacts.

Does your single example prove that Pangram doesn't work, or that it doesn't work on short snippets of text? Try to get a detection error on a longer run of text. I'd be curious to see the results, particularly if you can get a false positive.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#112

Post by QuantumGood » Sat, Jul 04, 2026, 5:45 PM UTC

manvel_hn wrote: post #9

So Kramnik, being a chess player and not a statistician, invented various methods of "detecting" cheating which seemed convincing for for a layman but questionable mathematically. Then he started attacking Daniel, Hikaru and some other players online. This all led to pretty tragic consequences. Kramnik still believes that he's in the right. The only good thing out of this is numerous funny videos by chess players try…

Causes create effects and eventually exist in a field of those effects. Kramnik was rapidly informed of statistical issues with his approaches in easy-to-understand ways (and also in technical detail). His "convincing for a layman" needs to be noted as "not convincing to himself after becoming more informed". So part of the issue is why he continued to pretend, either or both to himself or to others that his method was useful.

Chief chess.com officer IM Danny Rensch, among others, explained how Kramnik’s theories about how unlikely various streak lengths were were completely wrong with easy to understand detail.

Kramnik: “This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about”.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#113

Post by dwa3592 » Sat, Jul 04, 2026, 8:26 PM UTC

Seattle3503 wrote: post #111

dwa3592 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/deepanwadhwa/ai_detector_fails/blob/main/... the text in above is all ai generated. i uploaded a picture of two kittens to gemini and asked it to guess their age. then asked gemini to change the language to of someone who is born in deep Appalachia but has Japanese parents. then asked it to change the bullets to paragraphs written by someone who is talking fro life experience rather than grounded i…

You are talking about false negatives, but this thread started with a discussion around the potential for false positives causing writers anxiety > Even if 2/10000 is true that’s nowhere near accurate enough to make aggressive accusations that create anxiety at levels people need to medicate with potentially fatal consequences. False positives and false negatives are different problems that have different impacts. Do…

Well, false positives must anyway be zero for a product which is built around detecting AI. let me explain - the value proposition of this product is that we detect AI. Its not we don't call human writing AI generated. The latter is implied and must not happen ever. The value is that pangram detects AI generated content which it did not in the above example. if this explanation doesn't make sense then think of pangram as a pregnancy test where presence of AI == presence of baby. If a pregnancy test keeps saying you are not pregnant when you actually are then that's a problem, right? - you can't argue that at least its not saying you are pregnant when you are not.

But here's a bigger problem - Imagine a teacher grading 50 students - 40 of them use AI to write their answers and 10 write honestly. All 40 of them use the hack that I used and get 100% human from pangram and the other 10 also get 100 human from pangram. what is the product really adding to the workflow? Nothing, zero or zilch!!! - but then you come along and say hey at least those 10 honest students also got 100% from pangram. This whole argument of false positives being very very low works if your false negatives are tight which they are not.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#114

Post by picofarad » Mon, Jul 06, 2026, 6:25 PM UTC

BetterThanSober wrote: post #83

kriro wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He basically accused many players of cheating without any real evidence. His proofs are notoriously bad. The most notable examples are Daniel Naroditsky who was under immense psychological stress due to the allegations and died due to an accidental kratom overdose (kratom is used to self-medicate anxiety). Another prominent example are his allegations against Jose Martinez (aka Jospem) which resulted in them playing…

> accidental kratom overdose You cannot overdose on plain leaf kratom

7-OH, then? Its much stronger, and doses aren't standardized. If I take a half tablet as suggested I'll just evacuate it within an hour. Quarter tablet is hard to cut, so doses are inconsistent. Its an awful product, the way it is sold.