Just because you CAN screw around with someone else's property doesn't mean you SHOULD. Although it can be exciting (especially at that age) to do something forbidden, he can suffer the consequences if caught. He might inadvertently harm the system and could wind up in serious legal trouble. It's like walking up to someone's front door, twisting the knob and discovering that they forgot to lock it when they left. That doesn't give him the right to enter the house, even if all he wanted to do was "look around". Turn the situation around: would he want someone hacking into his home computer because he didn't have it properly secured? Would they have the right to do it to him?
Ask HN: My 13 year-old cousin hacked into his school's system. What advice would you give?
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Re: Ask HN: My 13 year-old cousin hacked into his school's system. What advice would you give?
#12When I was in high school, I guessed the administrator password of our computer lab (it was the administrator's daughter's first name) and basically maintained the computer lab for the rest of the semester. I never did any harm in the process. The administrator, upon finding out what I had done, recognized that I knew what I was doing, and supported my work. I fixed permissions that repaired apps that had been mysteriously broken for years, reset other students' passwords at their request, and lots of other helpful things..
Then one day my teacher switched places with the only other person who had the admin password, and she didn't know about what I had been doing. When she found out that I had administrator access, she was infuriated. She called me a "hacker" and reported me to the principal. The principal planned to give me a 0 in the class and possibly expel me from school. The only people who were allowed to be in the "hearing" which decided my fate was the pissed off teacher and the principal. The administrator, who vouched for me, was told that no one asked for his opinion and that it wasn't relevant. I almost failed to graduate because of this, and it was only through being persistent and involving every teacher I knew that I managed to not fail (the principal reduced my grade to 75/100 instead of failing me).
I would tell your son that most adults who have authority (including principals, teachers, judges and police officers) do not understand technology and computers very well, and therefore it's important to not only operate within the scope of the law and rules of his school, but to also not even appear to operate outside those rules. Computers are cheap, and in 2009 there's not much more interesting in his school's network than what he can set up on a $200 netbook.
Re: Ask HN: My 13 year-old cousin hacked into his school's system. What advice would you give?
#13Why was it wrong ? He shouldn't have been able to do it anyway. Compare it to a kid kicking against a fence and finding out that it swings open. Simply explain that if you have no business in a system that you should not try to gain access, that should be plenty.
Up/down up/down, if you disagree say so. Do you take offense at my suggestion this kid did nothing wrong ? Why is that ? Enlighten me, for all I have read above the sysadmin is the person in the wrong, if a 13 year old can walk all over your system you ought to be looking for a job (and one that does not include system administration).
You defended a child against an adult. Of course some people will irrationally downmod you. Don't worry about it.
Re: Ask HN: My 13 year-old cousin hacked into his school's system. What advice would you give?
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that piece makes some assumptions about the attention span of 13 year olds that are not present in the samples available to me :)
I knew a 13 year old, diagnosed with ADHD for not sitting quietly in class, who could concentrate on a chess game for 4+ hours straight. And then play another one after a short break. I could do the same. I also read SICP when I was 13.
I have a son like that. He's great at the stuff that he is interested in, anything else and he's bored instantly.
ADHD to me is just a convenient label for kids that are different than that norm, so we trot out the medicine cabinet to make them conform instead of helping them to cope with the world around them we make it easier for the 'rest' to cope with them.
Re: Ask HN: My 13 year-old cousin hacked into his school's system. What advice would you give?
#15Why was it wrong ? He shouldn't have been able to do it anyway. Compare it to a kid kicking against a fence and finding out that it swings open. Simply explain that if you have no business in a system that you should not try to gain access, that should be plenty.
Up/down up/down, if you disagree say so. Do you take offense at my suggestion this kid did nothing wrong ? Why is that ? Enlighten me, for all I have read above the sysadmin is the person in the wrong, if a 13 year old can walk all over your system you ought to be looking for a job (and one that does not include system administration).
He didn't do any major damage
What do you mean he didn't do anything wrong? If all he did was find a way into their systems and report his findings of insecurity or something, certainly there would be nothing wrong with that (as long as he's following his terms of use for the school computers, also -- he's held to the rules of the school as a student). But it appears as if he's done something, maybe he didn't report what he discovered, that is indeed wrong.
And I agree, the sysadmin must be pretty incompetent, but that is still no reason to be doing that. It's like saying "the lock on this safe is weak and easily broken, so I will go ahead and break it to access the contents inside." It's still a safe, you're still not supposed to break it. If you do, you should immediately recommend to the owner that they get a stronger lock.
He's a typical (in a sense) 13 year old. This hardly warrants punishment. But he should indeed put his talents to better use, and that's what the author of this thread is asking. What would we recommend?
Re: Ask HN: My 13 year-old cousin hacked into his school's system. What advice would you give?
#16Whatever you do, do not punish him for this. While what he did was not right (though your use of "hacking" here is very broad), instead of telling him how wrong it was, simply try to push him in a more positive direction. My suggestion would be to ask him to work on some sort of project for or with you, perhaps even get him involved in something small and open source. Starting a website may even push him in the right direction.
An alternative would be to talk to the school and see if they could give him some sort of credit for helping administer the network, or work on a special project for the school.
To give you an anecdote: in high school (and this was only a few years ago), me and my friends consistently were cracking passwords and breaking into various parts of our school's network. We never did anything harmful, nor did we ever cheat, but we did it for the fun and the challenge. One day, we happened to find a file containing all the passwords to every user on the network -- teachers, guidance counselors, and principal included -- and we turned it into the principal. Instead of telling us we were wrong for "hacking the network" and questioning us, he thanked us profusely and got the file deleted from the network. No punishment.
In middle school, however, I got in minor trouble for "hacking" by using proxies to skirt around the school's filtering system. The "techs" in the computer lab quite literally pulled me out of class and angrily questioned me, telling me how I was wrong and what I did was bad. What happened? I continued doing it, and just made sure not to be caught.
My point is that telling him he is wrong will not stop him, and he will likely continue what he is doing because it stimulates him and he finds it exciting. By nurturing that excitement and funneling it into something constructive, such as an alternative project, he will learn what the better avenues are and likely forget about "hacking"/cracking almost (if not) completely.
Re: Ask HN: My 13 year-old cousin hacked into his school's system. What advice would you give?
#17Show him this: http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html
I thought of the same article.
Also, I greatly enjoyed reading iWoz and it is be very accessible for a teenager. Woz' passion is very contagious and it may help him discover how fun constructive hacking is.
Re: Ask HN: My 13 year-old cousin hacked into his school's system. What advice would you give?
#18Why was it wrong ? He shouldn't have been able to do it anyway. Compare it to a kid kicking against a fence and finding out that it swings open. Simply explain that if you have no business in a system that you should not try to gain access, that should be plenty.
Up/down up/down, if you disagree say so. Do you take offense at my suggestion this kid did nothing wrong ? Why is that ? Enlighten me, for all I have read above the sysadmin is the person in the wrong, if a 13 year old can walk all over your system you ought to be looking for a job (and one that does not include system administration).
So does this mean that if I accidentally forget to lock my front door that it is legal for you to walk around inside my house?
Re: Ask HN: My 13 year-old cousin hacked into his school's system. What advice would you give?
#19I'd try the "with great power comes great responsibility" angle. They did the best their muddled minds could do to secure their system. It was trivially easy to break into it using your l33t haxor skillz, but might does not make right. Have a little compassion.
Also, remember, embarrassing them in this way might cause them to use the great power they have over you to make your life miserable as well. It goes both ways. The luddites in charge of public schools are usually docile, slow moving creatures, but they can become suddenly fierce if poked in the eye with a sharp stick.
Re: Ask HN: My 13 year-old cousin hacked into his school's system. What advice would you give?
#20Just let him know what the potential consequences are, and your recommendation (which I'm assuming is to "not" continue).
See if there is any way you can spin this toward the "good", by possibly having a meeting with the schools principal and systems admin. This is obviously a crap shoot, but could possibly be beneficial to your son's education.