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International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

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Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#71

Post by kelipso »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #63
manvel_hn wrote: post #9

So Kramnik, being a chess player and not a statistician, invented various methods of "detecting" cheating which seemed convincing for for a layman but questionable mathematically. Then he started attacking Daniel, Hikaru and some other players online. This all led to pretty tragic consequences. Kramnik still believes that he's in the right. The only good thing out of this is numerous funny videos by chess players try…

A lot of people imagine chess players to he smart, but there's a video of asking grandmasters very simple (imho) general knowledge questions that they did absolutely abysmally at. It's probably safe to assume that someone who is really good at chess is actually bad at anything that isn't chess

A big percentage of the top grandmasters skip high school and almost none of them have went to college. They are “smart” in that they have the potential intelligence to learn that stuff, as demonstrated by them having learned chess, but they have basically no knowledge of statistics, mathematics, plenty of other general knowledge topics.

From that point of view, you should really consider them to be as knowledgeable about these things as high school dropouts. It was hilarious following the whole cheating thing and seeing them try to interpret these statistical results and coming to really stupid conclusions.

You could say it’s difficult to see them this way due to the cultural and historical perspectives on chess but this is the reality of top grandmasters at this time.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#72

Post by kelipso »

Maxatar wrote: post #18
EGreg wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the famous case of Carlsen claiming that his opponent cheated and even forfeiting to draw attention to it?

This is a big part of the problem... Kramnik had been bullying people for years about cheating, including aggressively bullying Daniel Naroditsky, and for the most part the chess community did nothing about it. It would be very hard for people to condemn Kramnik for his cheating accusations all the while chess' top star Carlsen was on a bullying spree of his own against Niemann.

> It would be very hard for people to condemn Kramnik for his cheating accusations all the while chess' top star Carlsen was on a bullying spree of his own against Niemann.

Doesn’t seem that hard from seeing all the comments here. I make an effort to keep away from chess forums online because of this stuff; most of these people are literally children, like under 14, but you can’t tell online lol.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#73

Post by Aurornis »

kriro wrote: post #35
Arainach wrote: post #2

For those who don't follow chess, what were the allegations? This article is intentionally vague on all the details.

He basically accused many players of cheating without any real evidence. His proofs are notoriously bad. The most notable examples are Daniel Naroditsky who was under immense psychological stress due to the allegations and died due to an accidental kratom overdose (kratom is used to self-medicate anxiety). Another prominent example are his allegations against Jose Martinez (aka Jospem) which resulted in them playing…

> (kratom is used to self-medicate anxiety)

As a side note because I don’t want anybody to get the wrong idea: Kratom is an opioid and it is not an anxiety treatment. Some people with anxiety try to self-medicate with opioids because they can provide a temporary feeling of well being and euphoria, but they leave the person in worse condition when the effects wear off. This is what leads to the addiction and following dose escalation.

So without passing any judgment on anyone in this story, I would warn anyone else reading this that Kratom is decidedly a very bad way to try to cope with an anxiety condition and the false and fleeting feelings of calm that come from opioids will only bring more problems on top of a difficult mental health situation.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#74

Post by matheusmoreira »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #63
manvel_hn wrote: post #9

So Kramnik, being a chess player and not a statistician, invented various methods of "detecting" cheating which seemed convincing for for a layman but questionable mathematically. Then he started attacking Daniel, Hikaru and some other players online. This all led to pretty tragic consequences. Kramnik still believes that he's in the right. The only good thing out of this is numerous funny videos by chess players try…

A lot of people imagine chess players to he smart, but there's a video of asking grandmasters very simple (imho) general knowledge questions that they did absolutely abysmally at. It's probably safe to assume that someone who is really good at chess is actually bad at anything that isn't chess

> The ability to play chess is the sign of a gentleman.

> The ability to play chess well is the sign of a wasted life.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#75

Post by alex1138 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #74
IncreasePosts wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people imagine chess players to he smart, but there's a video of asking grandmasters very simple (imho) general knowledge questions that they did absolutely abysmally at. It's probably safe to assume that someone who is really good at chess is actually bad at anything that isn't chess

> The ability to play chess is the sign of a gentleman. > The ability to play chess well is the sign of a wasted life.

- Paul Morphy, lawyer (I think). One of... well. Greatest of all time discussions are hard (times evolve) but he murdered his competition relative to his time

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#76

Post by jamesnorden »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #27

Kramnik undeniably pushed Naroditsky into developing an addiction which ultimately contributed to his death. Whether it was intentional suicide or accidental overdose(both are possible) seems to me to be completely irrelevant. Kramnik engaged in a dedicated bullying and a smear campaign against Danya for a prolonged period, without substantive evidence, and never let up. When Danya explicitly stated in multiple inter…

[flagged]

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#77

Post by elicash »

adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #68
t0mpr1c3 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hans admitted to cheating. It's no wonder his career suffered. Incidentally, he is also a complete asshole.

The only cheating Hans admitted to and the only cheating proven were two (maybe 3?) online non monetary games when he was under 15 years old. Pretty much every player has done something like that. But again, he was blacklisted before any of even these marginal allegations were proven. And the actual allegations Magnus accused him of and that followed him for years has absolutely no evidence other than Magnus not acce…

This isn't true. He said "And other than when I was 12 years old I have never cheated in a tournament with prize money." That implies, to me, that when he was 12 he did in fact cheat for prize money.

And then he admitted that he cheated as a 16 year old in "random games" to boost his online rating. I can't find any instance of him providing a number of how many games he admits to cheating in, but the chess.com report alleged over 100, including when he was 17.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#78

Post by FreakLegion »

zug_zug wrote: post #67
manvel_hn wrote: post #9

So Kramnik, being a chess player and not a statistician, invented various methods of "detecting" cheating which seemed convincing for for a layman but questionable mathematically. Then he started attacking Daniel, Hikaru and some other players online. This all led to pretty tragic consequences. Kramnik still believes that he's in the right. The only good thing out of this is numerous funny videos by chess players try…

Not as a defense of Kramnik's behavior, but Naroditsky's death was determined not likely to be suicide: probable cardiac arrhythmia tied to systemic sarcoidosis, with methamphetamine/kratom as contributing factors.

I'm generally skeptical of causal narratives like this, but Naroditsky talked openly and at length about the ongoing physical and mental health effects of Kramnik's nonsense. So in this particular case, I'm comfortable blaming Kramnik either way.
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