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Instead of banning AI, I made a classroom contract with my students

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Re: Instead of banning AI, I made a classroom contract with my students

#51

Post by randsorex »

tonymet wrote: post #6

Instruction needs to shift to accommodate AI rather than preventing it from being used to complete assignments and tests. Assignments and tests were always lossy, and over time more cheating crept in. Instruction should shift to benchmarking productive output, strategic thinking and group collaboration. Similar to labs where you are tested on completing an experiment or a project with artifacts. Or an MBA program wit…

I suspect it is all futile without resurrecting the old idea of being "learned" as in learn-ed.

"Learned" didn't really mean what we mean today by being well educated or smart. You can't use AI to cheat and become "learned". AI can find the books to read but you still have to read them and understand the ideas.

There was connotation of breadth as opposed to depth with being "learned".

I think we also have to forget about "the real world". Being "learned" automatically is going to inherit dealing with "the real world" because the real world is always changing and that is exactly why breadth should be the focus going forward more than the depth of the research university model.

Of course, in a society so dominated by credentialism, credentialed people are going to hate AI because it will obviously let anyone cheat at the credential they put so much time and effort into. This doesn't need to be dressed up in some "think of the children" argument.

Claude to me is the greatest thing since sliced bread that increases my "learnedness" every single day but I also am a drop out that invested basically nothing in being a credentialed person.

Re: Instead of banning AI, I made a classroom contract with my students

#52

Post by busymom0 »

breezybottom wrote: post #34
Aboutplants wrote: post #11

The older I get the more I realize “moderation in everything” is the key to success and happiness. Moderation in the sense of using or consuming something to only a certain degree. In this case, education, the answer is in the middle. It’s exploring and utilizing new tools while ensuring the base foundation of education. It’s really simple. Apply “moderation” to nearly any facet of your life and it’s probably the cor…

This is called the golden mean fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argumen... What I've found as I get older is that when someone says "It’s really simple," that's a good sign it isn't.

Something can be really simple, yet very hard. Like saving money or losing fat and building muscles.

Re: Instead of banning AI, I made a classroom contract with my students

#53

Post by whattheheckheck »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #17
_aavaa_ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously trying to compare “AI” in education to fentanyl? The difference between AI robbing you of learning opportunities and acting as a tutor or sounding board is what question you ask.

No I'm arguing against the false fairness in moderation in anything. It's just not correct. (Though I do sense a sort of cognitive fent fold in certain heavy AI-users, so maybe I should)

Moderation in everything... including applying the phrase moderation in everything...

Re: Instead of banning AI, I made a classroom contract with my students

#54

Post by marginalia_nu »

bobsmooth wrote: post #37
marginalia_nu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moderation in fentanyl, too? Some habits are arguably just vices, that have few justifiable middle grounds.

Fentanyl is used in hospitals for pain management, so yes.

Moderation in recreational fentanyl then?

Re: Instead of banning AI, I made a classroom contract with my students

#55

Post by [deleted] »

Aboutplants wrote: post #11

The older I get the more I realize “moderation in everything” is the key to success and happiness. Moderation in the sense of using or consuming something to only a certain degree. In this case, education, the answer is in the middle. It’s exploring and utilizing new tools while ensuring the base foundation of education. It’s really simple. Apply “moderation” to nearly any facet of your life and it’s probably the cor…

[deleted]

Re: Instead of banning AI, I made a classroom contract with my students

#56

Post by grayhatter »

My job is to teach students how to get stronger. Instead of forcing them to stack and rerack their own weights, and instead of using the existing university policy against plagiarism, or the existing social contract. I made them sign an additional set of rules where they promise to only use the magic weight lift button when stacking or reracking. I feel that this middle ground is superior: I'd rather sacrifice the subtle exercise benefits of moving relatively light weight in weird ways; that extremely important toward helping prevent injuries, instead of actually dealing with the desire of students (human nature) to get out of the effort that goes into learning.

I have no idea how accurate, or useful that analogy is, but personal intuition tells me it's really close. I also don't envy teachers. I used to teach, so I do understand the position they feel that they are required to adapt into. However, I prefer CS programs that don't encourage people to tolerate non-determinism, or otherwise unpredictable outputs. They're the source of some of the most intractable bugs, one i doubt the next generation of students will be able to troubleshoot correctly if they never learn to solve beginner level bugs without LLM assistance.

Re: Instead of banning AI, I made a classroom contract with my students

#57

Post by breezybottom »

busymom0 wrote: post #52
breezybottom wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is called the golden mean fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argumen... What I've found as I get older is that when someone says "It’s really simple," that's a good sign it isn't.

Something can be really simple, yet very hard. Like saving money or losing fat and building muscles.

I don't know what that means. Building muscle involves incredibly complicated biological processes, there's nothing "simple" about it. In the parent comment the "simple" advice is also fallacious.

Re: Instead of banning AI, I made a classroom contract with my students

#58

Post by chrisweekly »

seemaze wrote: post #44
Aboutplants wrote: post #11

The older I get the more I realize “moderation in everything” is the key to success and happiness. Moderation in the sense of using or consuming something to only a certain degree. In this case, education, the answer is in the middle. It’s exploring and utilizing new tools while ensuring the base foundation of education. It’s really simple. Apply “moderation” to nearly any facet of your life and it’s probably the cor…

>This isn’t to say don’t follow passions or pursue things to a moderate extreme, just don’t ever let it consume you. Just moderate your moderation! It’s turtles all the way down

I like the idea "everything in moderation -- including moderation" (implying it's healthy to occasionally go nuts)

Re: Instead of banning AI, I made a classroom contract with my students

#59

Post by busymom0 »

breezybottom wrote: post #57
busymom0 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something can be really simple, yet very hard. Like saving money or losing fat and building muscles.

I don't know what that means. Building muscle involves incredibly complicated biological processes, there's nothing "simple" about it. In the parent comment the "simple" advice is also fallacious.

We don't need to know all the intricacies of how something happens behind the scenes. The actual task of how to do to it is very simple.

Re: Instead of banning AI, I made a classroom contract with my students

#60

Post by atoav »

mrtksn wrote: post #20
Aboutplants wrote: post #11

The older I get the more I realize “moderation in everything” is the key to success and happiness. Moderation in the sense of using or consuming something to only a certain degree. In this case, education, the answer is in the middle. It’s exploring and utilizing new tools while ensuring the base foundation of education. It’s really simple. Apply “moderation” to nearly any facet of your life and it’s probably the cor…

I don’t know about moderation but optimization is the mother of all evil. All extremists are actually optimization agents. Let one run for too long and you greatly loose on everything. So I don’t think that we should meet a middle ground necessarily but wary of people that are trying to maxxx something.

Just be wary that you might not like the middle ground between a serial killer and someone wbo insists all human life is sacred.
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