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International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

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Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#31

Post by zmgsabst »

adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #17

Kramnik is an asshole and this action is far too little far too late. His actions have possibly already led to the loss of a life. At the same time, FIDE also needs to look back at the behavior of some of the most powerful people in the sport in the whole Hans saga. What Hans was put through was ridiculous even if all the allegations were true, given how many actions were simply the result of the most powerful player…

Hans did plenty to damage his own career - eg, his 2024 ban for trashing a hotel room.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#32

Post by [deleted] »

alex1138 wrote: post #23
manvel_hn wrote: post #9

So Kramnik, being a chess player and not a statistician, invented various methods of "detecting" cheating which seemed convincing for for a layman but questionable mathematically. Then he started attacking Daniel, Hikaru and some other players online. This all led to pretty tragic consequences. Kramnik still believes that he's in the right. The only good thing out of this is numerous funny videos by chess players try…

Naroditsky played a match against Magnus that he streamed where it ended (this a 1+0 time control; yes you can cheat in bullet but it's clear he wasn't) in a 40-40 tie, this after he lost the first game from being distracted getting his stream set up properly He was one of the world's best bullet and blitz players, it was obvious he was never cheating. Kramnik was apparently one of his heroes. It was despicable behav…

[deleted]

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#33

Post by rendall »

moomin wrote: post #4
Arainach wrote: post #2

For those who don't follow chess, what were the allegations? This article is intentionally vague on all the details.

I’m not a follower either, but inference from the article tells me: Krammik has come up with some sort of cheat detection method, has loudly accused some others of cheating, and FIDE are both unconvinced of the truth of the allegations and very unhappy he didn’t do this through proper channels. He also doesn’t appear to have co-operated with the investigation.

His "cheat detection method" mostly consisted of playing someone online and then reporting them for cheating if he lost.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#34

Post by nopinsight »

dwa3592 wrote: post #29

For non-chess players - imagine if Geoffrey hinton used AI detectors (GPT zero, pangram etc) to accuse and punish people of using AI in their writing and bad mouth them publicly. That's what kramnik (former world chess champion) did to Danya and other players. I miss Danya.

To my knowledge, Pangram has a very low false positive rate approaching zero. (False negative is another matter.) I’m not sure that’s what you want to use as the analogy here? (I don’t know much about this Kramnik situation.)

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#35

Post by kriro »

Arainach wrote: post #2

For those who don't follow chess, what were the allegations? This article is intentionally vague on all the details.

He basically accused many players of cheating without any real evidence. His proofs are notoriously bad. The most notable examples are Daniel Naroditsky who was under immense psychological stress due to the allegations and died due to an accidental kratom overdose (kratom is used to self-medicate anxiety). Another prominent example are his allegations against Jose Martinez (aka Jospem) which resulted in them playing a grudge match which Jospem won. Kramnik was struggling with the tech in the online portion of the game. Basically he cannot accept that younger players beat him in quick formats and flings around ridiculous stuff. He's also feuding with Hikaru who is obviously really good at blitz.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#36

Post by TimPC »

nopinsight wrote: post #34
dwa3592 wrote: post #29

For non-chess players - imagine if Geoffrey hinton used AI detectors (GPT zero, pangram etc) to accuse and punish people of using AI in their writing and bad mouth them publicly. That's what kramnik (former world chess champion) did to Danya and other players. I miss Danya.

To my knowledge, Pangram has a very low false positive rate approaching zero. (False negative is another matter.) I’m not sure that’s what you want to use as the analogy here? (I don’t know much about this Kramnik situation.)

Pangram’s market claims are very different from independent validations of the platform. The 99.98% rate is on a toy dataset not resembling reality.

Even if 2/10000 is true that’s nowhere near accurate enough to make aggressive accusations that create anxiety at levels people need to medicate with potentially fatal consequences.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#37

Post by dwa3592 »

nopinsight wrote: post #34
dwa3592 wrote: post #29

For non-chess players - imagine if Geoffrey hinton used AI detectors (GPT zero, pangram etc) to accuse and punish people of using AI in their writing and bad mouth them publicly. That's what kramnik (former world chess champion) did to Danya and other players. I miss Danya.

To my knowledge, Pangram has a very low false positive rate approaching zero. (False negative is another matter.) I’m not sure that’s what you want to use as the analogy here? (I don’t know much about this Kramnik situation.)

>>To my knowledge, pangram has a very low false positive rate approaching zero. (False negative is another matter.) I’m not sure that’s what you want to use as the analogy here?

'To my knowledge' - okay. In my experience, they're all horrible. I have fooled them both ways - ai generated content that they say is purely human and human generated content that they say is partially AI or just AI.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#38

Post by prmoustache »

kriro wrote: post #35
Arainach wrote: post #2

For those who don't follow chess, what were the allegations? This article is intentionally vague on all the details.

He basically accused many players of cheating without any real evidence. His proofs are notoriously bad. The most notable examples are Daniel Naroditsky who was under immense psychological stress due to the allegations and died due to an accidental kratom overdose (kratom is used to self-medicate anxiety). Another prominent example are his allegations against Jose Martinez (aka Jospem) which resulted in them playing…

How can one cheat in chess?

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#39

Post by nopinsight »

TimPC wrote: post #36
nopinsight wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my knowledge, Pangram has a very low false positive rate approaching zero. (False negative is another matter.) I’m not sure that’s what you want to use as the analogy here? (I don’t know much about this Kramnik situation.)

Pangram’s market claims are very different from independent validations of the platform. The 99.98% rate is on a toy dataset not resembling reality. Even if 2/10000 is true that’s nowhere near accurate enough to make aggressive accusations that create anxiety at levels people need to medicate with potentially fatal consequences.

Someone also input lots of pre-GPT texts to Pangram and they were all clear. The point is Kramnik’s claims are much weaker and not comparable.

Re: International chess federation sanctions Kramnik

#40

Post by Arainach »

prmoustache wrote: post #38
kriro wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He basically accused many players of cheating without any real evidence. His proofs are notoriously bad. The most notable examples are Daniel Naroditsky who was under immense psychological stress due to the allegations and died due to an accidental kratom overdose (kratom is used to self-medicate anxiety). Another prominent example are his allegations against Jose Martinez (aka Jospem) which resulted in them playing…

How can one cheat in chess?

By using computers.
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