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US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

theguardian.com

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Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#71

Post by skybrian »

doublerabbit wrote: post #39
skybrian wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they lose tax revenue? I imagine these small cities gain tax revenue, but this doesn’t really drive NIMBY politics.

When do enterprises ever proper pay tax? If they did we all would be better off. They will pay the minimum tax and that will then be pocketed by the local politicians who pushed for the DC. The town gets a pittance compared to the profit produced from these DCs. One of the incentives to build in these areas are that they can pay low tax in the first place.

My understanding is that local governments often get more in tax revenue than they spend on additional services. Which explains why they want to do it. Example:

https://wjla.com/news/local/loudoun-county-virginia-taxes-da...

> In January, Loudoun County estimated about $895 million in data center real and personal property tax revenue, and the county’s entire operating budget was projected to be $940 million, according to County Supervisor Mike Turner (D-Ashburn).

> Loudoun County’s next budget will spend $4.7 billion in the next fiscal year which includes funding for LCPS, according to the county.

…

> Loudoun County Public Schools will be getting $111.8 million more than last year, and county employee compensation will increase, according to the county.

They’re getting lots of money from data centers and spending it on things like employees and schools, while lowering residents’ taxes slightly.

Apparently you believe differently but where did you learn that?

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#72

Post by LocalH »

I believe framing this as people being against "data centers" is missing the target. Data centers have existed for decades, ever since business started using computers. What people really have an issue with is data centers designed for AI, using far more power than prior data centers.

Honestly, I think we should just ban "AI" of all forms and get it over with. Rip the bandage off before the wound underneath turns into gangrene

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#73

Post by RealFloridaMan »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #41
arghwhat wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should also keep in mind that the problem isn't datacenters, but how they are built. Datacenters do not have to be noisy. Datacenters do not have to cheap out on cooling solutions. Datacenters do not need to be powered by mobile gas turbines left on trailers to pretend they're not permanently installed to avoid having to get permits. Those corners being cut is not what make AI datacenters possible or competitive.…

> Datacenters do not need to be powered by mobile gas turbines left on trailers The others I agree with, but Im not sure this is true. The US government has proven itself completely incapable of expanding electricity production and grid infrastructure. How exactly are you supposed to power your datacenter when you cant access any electricity?

The US govt does not build out infrastructure. They at best subsidize it over long periods of time.

To answer your question, you build your datacenters where there is capacity or you plan with the utility in the area you want to build. This process takes years.

They are not doing that. They are building them as fast and as cheaply as possible.

As a result they are cutting corners and are leading to all of the complaints.

They are as a result stealing from the future to make a profit today.

The grid does not have gigawatts of extra base load capacity available as that has always been looked upon as wasteful.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#74

Post by nfw2 »

lykr0n wrote: post #68
energy123 wrote: post #58

The DCs are going up across middle income countries: industrial zones in South East Asia, India and Morocco, and also UAE/Saudi. Anger towards DCs are pertinent from a politics-in-rich-country angle, but it has no relevance on the overall trajectory of where we are heading. If DCs get banned in the US, there are still many middle income countries who want them in their special industrial zones, due to the FDI and emp…

> employment opportunities the 5-7 people they employ during normal operation. High skilled engineers get flown in for setup and major changes/operations. They add little local economic value.

They can be taxed. There should be a point where the price is right for the community hosting.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#75

Post by piva00 »

energy123 wrote: post #69
lykr0n wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> employment opportunities the 5-7 people they employ during normal operation. High skilled engineers get flown in for setup and major changes/operations. They add little local economic value.

Why does Malaysia give tax breaks to data centers?

Definitely not because of long-term employment, even very large DCs only employ about a hundred staff on-site.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#76

Post by naturalmovement »

Hamuko wrote: post #67
naturalmovement wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Did our demand for social media apps suddenly blow up? Because our DC demand seems to be blowing up.

I'm curious how the HN zeitgeist hates datacenters so ferociously yet every third article posted to the front page is 800 comments beating off to a new Claude feature. It's mind-boggling.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#77

Post by arghwhat »

eduction wrote: post #57
arghwhat wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should also keep in mind that the problem isn't datacenters, but how they are built. Datacenters do not have to be noisy. Datacenters do not have to cheap out on cooling solutions. Datacenters do not need to be powered by mobile gas turbines left on trailers to pretend they're not permanently installed to avoid having to get permits. Those corners being cut is not what make AI datacenters possible or competitive.…

The noise is often from backup power solutions like diesel generators that need to be turned on regularly. Maybe that’s what the turbines are? I can’t imagine a data center getting provisioned with a turbine as its primary power. But yes a data center can be silent most of the month. Very open to being corrected on any of this, it’s just my own understanding but I’m not in the industry.

To my understanding (which can be wrong) these gas turbines are not backup generators, but used as primary or supplementary power sources during normal operation where the grid cannot supply (or when grid cost is unfavorable). In one clip (which is a bit sensationalist so I'll refrain from posting it as it may derail) shows a park of some ~24 large gas turbines - each of which sized like a small building - with about half in operation at that time.

Indeed, there is some noise from backup generators when tested (or in use), but with a bit of preparation, good palcement and sequential testing you can make that not too disturbing.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#78

Post by nfw2 »

piva00 wrote: post #75
energy123 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does Malaysia give tax breaks to data centers?

Definitely not because of long-term employment, even very large DCs only employ about a hundred staff on-site.

A hundred is a lot bigger than five

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#79

Post by wewtyflakes »

dheera wrote: post #70
wewtyflakes wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you go in with the assumption that democracy does not work, then there is also no point in protesting, as being angry about datacenters would mean nothing anyway.

On the contrary, if democracy works, then there is no point in protesting, as you would just vote (or campaign and run for office) instead. Most large scale protests are in fact because democracy failed to give the people a voice, and decisions were made without the input of the people.

If democracy does not work, the consequences for that are broader than considering the pros/cons of data centers.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#80

Post by cosmic_cheese »

LocalH wrote: post #72

I believe framing this as people being against "data centers" is missing the target. Data centers have existed for decades, ever since business started using computers. What people really have an issue with is data centers designed for AI, using far more power than prior data centers. Honestly, I think we should just ban "AI" of all forms and get it over with. Rip the bandage off before the wound underneath turns int…

This latest round of projects are often located within or next to communities too, where most pre-AI projects were more out of the way, increasing immediately visible impact dramatically via noise and air and water pollution.
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