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Markets are competitive if and only if P != NP

arxiv.org

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Re: Markets are competitive if and only if P != NP

#2
The actual paper's title is

"Markets are competitive if and only if P != NP"

Seems that HN's auto-headline rewriting in this case has made a critical error :)

>Artificial intelligence, by expanding firms' computational capabilities, is pushing markets from the competitive regime toward the collusive regime, explaining the empirical emergence of algorithmic collusion without explicit coordination.

I have to dig more into the paper but I don't see how this follows, except in the most straightforward way. Basically, if everyone uses the same methods to derive price, of course there will be "collusion", or in other words, everyone will have the same price. But this doesn't seem like a result of compute per se, but simply better communication networks and information flows. You could have gotten the same result in medieval England by having everyone post their selling prices on the town square board.

Again, I haven't dug into the paper yet, but it seems like what really matters for firms is "compute"/$ (if the "compute" is an LLM or an assistant that has to go walk the 10 minutes down to the square makes little difference)

Edit: Isn't another implication of this, that increased compute -> collusion imply that increased compute -> communism becomes feasible?

I think this goes to my point above though, the primary problem preventing fully automated luxury communism isn't compute per se, but actually observing the information flows to make it possible. Capitalism famously solves this information problem through the pricing mechanism. So in effect, he's arguing that extra compute makes information gathering more efficient, and at the limit you get perfect information. Which, yeah, I guess so. Assuming everything can be perfectly measured, even theoretically.

Re: Markets are competitive if and only if P != NP

#3
Keeping in mind the mistake in the HN title (should be "P != NP"), the interesting part of the abstract is this:

> Combined with Maymin (2011), who proved that market efficiency requires P = NP, this yields a fundamental impossibility: markets can be informationally efficient or competitive, but not both.

(Note that Maymin is the author of both papers.)

Re: Markets are competitive if and only if P != NP

#4
Very interesting. The author claims to have proved that markets can be informationally efficient or competitive, but not both. The implications for policy and regulation are significant.

The author looks credible:

https://philipmaymin.com/about-philip

Thank you for sharing this on HN.

--

To the mods: The title needs to be edited to replace the equal sign with not-equal.

Re: Markets are competitive if and only if P != NP

#5
> the collusion detection problem is computationally infeasible for markets satisfying a natural instance-hardness condition on their demand structure, rendering punishment threats non-credible and collusion unstable.

And yet we’ve clearly observed stable price fixing cartels. Maybe the word “unstable” means too much or the game theory model used doesn’t describe the real world accurately. When theory is contradicted by the evidence, it would be wise to consider the theory is flawed.

Re: Markets are competitive if and only if P != NP

#6
post #2

The actual paper's title is "Markets are competitive if and only if P != NP" Seems that HN's auto-headline rewriting in this case has made a critical error :) >Artificial intelligence, by expanding firms' computational capabilities, is pushing markets from the competitive regime toward the collusive regime, explaining the empirical emergence of algorithmic collusion without explicit coordination. I have to dig more i…

HN is competitive if and only if != != =

Re: Markets are competitive if and only if P != NP

#8
post #4

Very interesting. The author claims to have proved that markets can be informationally efficient or competitive, but not both. The implications for policy and regulation are significant. The author looks credible: https://philipmaymin.com/about-philip Thank you for sharing this on HN. -- To the mods: The title needs to be edited to replace the equal sign with not-equal.

So it pulls exclamation marks. . .angle brackets maybe?

    “=“  “!=“

Re: Markets are competitive if and only if P != NP

#9
If markets were perfectly efficient, entrepreneurship would not exist. An entrepreneur is, at this level, someone who looks for an arbitrage opportunity in correcting a market inefficiency, usually of the form "there is a market for X, X could be provided, but X is not currently provided."

Re: Markets are competitive if and only if P != NP

#10

> the collusion detection problem is computationally infeasible for markets satisfying a natural instance-hardness condition on their demand structure, rendering punishment threats non-credible and collusion unstable. And yet we’ve clearly observed stable price fixing cartels. Maybe the word “unstable” means too much or the game theory model used doesn’t describe the real world accurately. When theory is contradicted…

Or, P=NP
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