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If Peter Thiel And Garry Kasparov Are Right, Then We're In Trouble

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Re: If Peter Thiel And Garry Kasparov Are Right, Then We're In Trouble

#41
You can argue that the pace of innovative growth is slowing because of whatever reason, but I would like to post a few things worth thinking about, given that I was thinking about this the other day.

Firstly lets look at things such as manned flight, radio transmissions and other innovations in the late 19th century that are now critical today. These eureka moments in science and engineering were traditionally brought about by a few people and their relative complexity is low. Look at the innovations we're seeing in physics today and you're talking about teams of people across multiple generations attempting to solve problems our ancestors couldn't even imagine. Electricity producing fusion reactors like ITER (and later DEMO)? Not a chance. They were too busy trying to get manned flight to work. Breaking the speed of sound in air? No way. Putting men on the moon? Not a chance.

Here's the thing, we (as a planet) could put men on the moon. Granted we're not as ready as the USA in 1969, but given the need it could be achieved. Putting a man on mars? Well that's a lot further away much further than the moon is with a whole new raft of unsolved problems.

I can immediately think of two areas where growth is as great and immediate in the field now as it was in physics in the early 20th century - nanotechnology and biotechnology. If you look at how much of Physics we understand, and our understanding of what we can and can't manipulate versus biology you can see that there's plenty of space for innovation.

I would also make a case for disruptive versus iterative innovation. The automobile has come a long way in 100 years but is essentially the same thing, a horseless carriage that takes the driver and passengers from point A to point B. We have however had massive amounts of iterative innovation in speed, fuel management, safety and so on. The same with air travel with demands and needs changing and planes changing to accomodate. Sure, it may look like a plane but the insides of an A380 are very different to a DC-3.

If the 20th century was the century of physics, I'd say the 21st is the century of nanochemistry and biomechanics. I suspect (although have no real proof) that we don't see the changes on the same scale because our quality of life, education and so on has been brought up by such a level already that improvements have less of a social impact in the west. There's no need for a cure for smallpox anymore. Disabilities from Polio have been down in the west for decades. Diseases like SARS and H5N1 that could've wiped us out in the early 20th century like the Spanish Flu have so far been contained.

Re: If Peter Thiel And Garry Kasparov Are Right, Then We're In Trouble

#42

I think if you just discount all modern innovations then it's easy to say nothing has changed of note. My TV looks better than ever. Should I just discount that as progress because it's still a picture displayed in my living room? If you suggest the iPhone 5 which allows me to get anywhere without planning with turn by turn directions, communicate with family on the road, make dinner reservations, and answer a work r…

>Regulation (another word for taxes) and taxes are much higher than in prior periods.

Can we keep the libertarian troll out of these comments? Do you really want to discuss taxes? Most of my wealth is taxed via capital gains. I pay maybe half the taxes my friends pay.

My dad used to run his own business in the 70s and 80s. His tax rate was unbelievable back then for his bracket.

We live in a low tax low regulation period right now. There's no denying it. Sorry Mitt lost the election, but don't fret, you'll get over it.

Re: If Peter Thiel And Garry Kasparov Are Right, Then We're In Trouble

#43
post #30
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasons your iPhone 5 lets you get directions, communicate and make dinner reservations are the global information infrastructure and the tcp/ip protocol, both products of a national innovation policy. I know that most people under 30 directly credit Steve Jobs for everything that they do on their phones. But it took a massive national investment to set up the basics of the internet, which provided the iphone wit…

"The reason your iPhone 5 lets you get directions, communicate and make dinner reservations is the global information infrastructure and the tcp/ip protocol, both products of a national innovation policy." And on you go in that vein, but that's massively reductionistic. For one thing, if that is so true, then why did the iPhone 5 not exist 30 years ago, which is still many years after those advances? The Internet and…

Commercial use of GPS wasn't allowed until 1996, and there has been some refinement of use in the last decade. Without GPS, there are no turn by turn directions, and there is no GPS without the space program. There is no GPS without the government funding of military technology, and allowing commercial use.

There is no iPhone without Silicon Valley. There is no Silicon Valley without the massive amount of defense work that was done in the area in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. (See: Steve Blank's stories as but one evidence.) Much of the work on smaller electronics was originally military funded - no one else had the R&D funding to do so.

Without the government, it is likely the development of something like ARPANET would have been delayed a decade, perhaps more. I'm not saying the internet wouldn't exist, but it would have been delayed and certainly would have looked a lot more like AOL and Compuserve than the integrated system we have now.

I'd say that there is a lot of government involvement that we're talking about.

Re: If Peter Thiel And Garry Kasparov Are Right, Then We're In Trouble

#44

I think if you just discount all modern innovations then it's easy to say nothing has changed of note. My TV looks better than ever. Should I just discount that as progress because it's still a picture displayed in my living room? If you suggest the iPhone 5 which allows me to get anywhere without planning with turn by turn directions, communicate with family on the road, make dinner reservations, and answer a work r…

What taxes are you talking about that are much higher than in prior periods? I've heard from a lot of investors that high taxes don't really impact their decisions. A good investment is a good investment. High taxes on middle class people however can have a stifling effect, because they don't have the extra cash to keep circulating in the economy.

As a (well-paid) international tax lawyer, my anecdotal evidence is that high taxes absolutely impact business and investment decisions. I too see these quotes about tax being an irrelevant item to business decisions. I call bullshit on them, and especially Warren Buffett when he says it.

Tax is regulation. Just as you see the entrenched cab industry attempting to cudgel Uber out of the marketplace, so too do entrenched interests use tax law to their advantage or to their competitors' disadvantage.

People who say decisions are not affected by tax are saying that decisions are made on factors other than net profit after tax. They are also assuming that all investments are made within a single taxing jurisdiction, so that it is impossible to take your money from a 40% tax jurisdiction and put it to work in a 10% tax jurisdiction.

Tax is not the only factor in play for business and investment decisions. There are other factors as well. Government red tape is, in my experience, a greater deterrent to business and investment expansion than tax.

A high-tax country with a highly efficient, transparent, and predictable bureaucracy (think Western Europe, with variations of course) will be more attractive than an inefficient, dunderheaded bureaucracy-ridden country with a looser tax policy (think Southern Europe).

There are lessons for the United States in all of this. Why does money flee from some places? And how can the United States avoid creating the same factors that make capital flee?

Don't get me started on government policies that make brains flee the country. That's an order of magnitude more damaging than watching money go away.

Re: If Peter Thiel And Garry Kasparov Are Right, Then We're In Trouble

#45
Alarmist, but I cannot object to manifestos that aim to improve the rate of innovation!

Perhaps the real problem: 1. The human mind or a team w/ communications between members can only handle so much information. 2. The toolboxes available to innovators working different stripes of the tech spectrum become riddled with complexity over time.

The solution: 1. As tools are aggregated and abstracted, this reduces information needing to be understood, allowing indies/teams to get a handle and get creative with their work. 2. As thinking/psychology approaches improve and as communication systems improve, the ability for the same people to process the relevant information also improves.

The internet has done a very good job with increasing information processing (by humans!), and other fields are being influenced by this success.

Re: If Peter Thiel And Garry Kasparov Are Right, Then We're In Trouble

#46

From the article: "There are certainly those who believe that the wellsprings of science are running dry..." What a load of horse shit! We're just getting started here, the "Internet Revolution" just discovered non-computer devices! And biology is just getting tapped... And those thinking along the lines "most people already have everything they need": well, duh, it's always that way. It's the unreasonable, the uncom…

I can't agree more. As the article points out, we're seeing huge advances in plenty of scientific fields. We're talking about storing terabytes on a cube on DNA no larger than a drop of water, we're synthesizing drugs that travel to tumors, activating only on arrival, we're gearing up to put people on mars... Really? No progress? No innovation?

Why are we even listening to a chess champion espousing crap about scientific progress? And Pieter Thiel might have entrepreneurship credentials, but he's no scientist.

Re: If Peter Thiel And Garry Kasparov Are Right, Then We're In Trouble

#47
The global megatrend is still the developing world developing. There are so many people who don't have clean water, don't get good food, don't have electricity or automobiles so that things can "get better" for the median person on Earth for a long time.

If we apply human ingenuity to it, it's challenging but believable to can support this in terms of food and energy for the next 50 years at least, and beyond that time frame it's likely that the world population stabilizes.

You might find many signs of decline such as the crude humor on TV sitcoms, the disappearance of defined benefit pensions, or Facebook and Zynga as "tittytainment" for the masses. You could say we'll never have another Einstein or Feynman, that we'll never have a satisfying paradigm for deterministic chaos with more than three degrees of freedom, etc. You might also point out very real problems we'll face dealing with global warming, terrorism, cybercrime, unemployment.

However there are so many exciting things I see going on today. The space program is more exciting today than it was in the 1960s. When I go to the west coast I see cool new restaurants that start in Hollywood, set up another location in L.A., then San Diego and the next thing you know it's a national chain with 50 locations. I think of all the cool little handmade things you can buy on Etsy.

I think there's still going to be a rapprochement between the FIRE (Financial, Insurance and Real Estate) industry and the real of the economy, but I think lots of people are doing big and little things that make life better and more interesting.

Re: If Peter Thiel And Garry Kasparov Are Right, Then We're In Trouble

#48
post #14

I think if you just discount all modern innovations then it's easy to say nothing has changed of note. My TV looks better than ever. Should I just discount that as progress because it's still a picture displayed in my living room? If you suggest the iPhone 5 which allows me to get anywhere without planning with turn by turn directions, communicate with family on the road, make dinner reservations, and answer a work r…

The reasons your iPhone 5 lets you get directions, communicate and make dinner reservations are the global information infrastructure and the tcp/ip protocol, both products of a national innovation policy. I know that most people under 30 directly credit Steve Jobs for everything that they do on their phones. But it took a massive national investment to set up the basics of the internet, which provided the iphone wit…

There was a competitive communications infrastructure before the USG decided to nationalize it all and AT&T managed to lobby themselves into a weird government-mandated monopoly position. If AT&T had not been granted a monopoly competitive pressure would have forced something like NANPA to be developed and we probably would have ended up with LNP a bit faster.

On the other hand AT&T’s monopoly provided funding to Bell Labs which had more to do with our modern world than DARPA.

The Internet as we know it today couldn’t exist until the government in the form of the NSF and their government & research only rules were bypassed by commercial interests.

Re: If Peter Thiel And Garry Kasparov Are Right, Then We're In Trouble

#49
post #14

I think if you just discount all modern innovations then it's easy to say nothing has changed of note. My TV looks better than ever. Should I just discount that as progress because it's still a picture displayed in my living room? If you suggest the iPhone 5 which allows me to get anywhere without planning with turn by turn directions, communicate with family on the road, make dinner reservations, and answer a work r…

The reasons your iPhone 5 lets you get directions, communicate and make dinner reservations are the global information infrastructure and the tcp/ip protocol, both products of a national innovation policy. I know that most people under 30 directly credit Steve Jobs for everything that they do on their phones. But it took a massive national investment to set up the basics of the internet, which provided the iphone wit…

As a 21 year old, I wanted to take offense to the Steve Jobs comment because he was a real jerk and the innovation came from the Woz's and not the Jobs, but given my limited interactions with others in my age group, the vast majority of them are pants on head dumb enough to have a shrine to honor turtlenecks.

Re: If Peter Thiel And Garry Kasparov Are Right, Then We're In Trouble

#50
I think real innovation is most likely to come from China. For example, they plan to build a 220 story tall sky scraper in 90 days: (http://gizmodo.com/5962070/china-will-build-the-tallest-buil...). They've also been building a massive high speed rail network over vast distances throughout China.

I think with these feats they want to establish themselves as a super power that can take on the U.S, as well as to improve their infrastructure. I think it's a good thing, as peaceful competition between nations has always lead to benefits for the world in general.

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