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Why Switzerland has 25 gbit internet and America doesn't

stefan.schueller.net

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Re: Why Switzerland has 25 gbit internet and America doesn't

#301

Post by baybal2 »

Turskarama wrote: post #254
Aurornis wrote: post #161

This article came up before. It's heavy on the clickbait, if you couldn't guess from the title. Some important points that they leave out: - 25G internet isn't available everywhere in Switzerland. It's just the fastest tier available in some locations. - The United States is 85 times larger than Switzerland. The entire country of Switzerland is the size of a small US state. Covering the US with broadband is much hard…

> - The United States is 85 times larger than Switzerland. The entire country of Switzerland is the size of a small US state. Covering the US with broadband is much harder than Switzerland. I see this argument come up a lot with regards to all kinds of infrastructure, and the thing is it simply _isn't true_. What matters is population density, GDP per capita, geography, and will. A countries size doesn't matter since…

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Re: Why Switzerland has 25 gbit internet and America doesn't

#303

Post by apexalpha »

guiambros wrote: post #173
Aurornis wrote: post #161

This article came up before. It's heavy on the clickbait, if you couldn't guess from the title. Some important points that they leave out: - 25G internet isn't available everywhere in Switzerland. It's just the fastest tier available in some locations. - The United States is 85 times larger than Switzerland. The entire country of Switzerland is the size of a small US state. Covering the US with broadband is much hard…

I live in NYC, one of the most densely populated cities in the world, and yet Verizon Fios 1 Gbps is my only option. I tried to upgrade to Fios 2 Gbps, but it's not available. Spectrum only goes to 200Mbps; no other providers in my area. I have no idea if Switzerland is any better, but the US situation in 2026 is appalling. If we're this bad in NYC, imagine what someone in rural America goes through.

> but the US situation in 2026 is appalling.

1Gpbs symmetric is not 'appaling' come on now.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 gbit internet and America doesn't

#304

Post by argentier »

piltdownman wrote: post #266
gleenn wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard someone argue that because original phones rolled out in the US much earlier and more broadly, we spend all this money on copper wiring. Because Europe didn't have as much, they transitioned to fast cellular quickly. Being first does not mean you will be best certainly.

In Europe local calls were generally never free, and in many countries getting a line/handset installed in your home was an onerous and expensive task. In more socialist/ex-bloc regions it was generally down to how much social and political capital you could muster. European telecom providers typically charged for local calls on a per-minute basis, often with connection/establishment fees. US telecom providers did it…

In Ireland at least local calls were a fixed price, no matter how long the call was. Long-distance calls were billed by the minute.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 gbit internet and America doesn't

#305

Post by piltdownman »

argentier wrote: post #304
piltdownman wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe local calls were generally never free, and in many countries getting a line/handset installed in your home was an onerous and expensive task. In more socialist/ex-bloc regions it was generally down to how much social and political capital you could muster. European telecom providers typically charged for local calls on a per-minute basis, often with connection/establishment fees. US telecom providers did it…

In Ireland at least local calls were a fixed price, no matter how long the call was. Long-distance calls were billed by the minute.

No they weren't - they were billed by the minute. About 5c/min in new money. That's why you had things like night and off-peak tariffs for 56k dial-up services in Ireland in the early 00s.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 gbit internet and America doesn't

#306

Post by matt-p »

miki123211 wrote: post #269
serial_dev wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rural area? Hard to build. Dense city? Hard to build. Got it. Jokes aside, I guess population density is just not the main factor in internet. It’s competition, it’s regulation, it’s corruption, and pop density is simply not a deciding factor.

Building in rural areas is hard for physical / engineering reasons. There's more cable to lay, more distance to cover, and fewer people to use that cable and offset the costs. Building in dense cities is hard because we choose to make it hard . We could (and should) choose differently. Ironically enough, rural areas now have a ceiling on how bad service can get (because Starlink is a viable alternative). That doesn't…

Rural is complicated. You have more distance between subscribers, but it's much more likely to just be grass which you can mole plough into for about a tenth of the cost per metre of digging up sidewalk.

I don't know about New York specifically but I do know laying new duct in central London is more expensive than it should be because the sidewalks are mostly now full. You need to close roads and track down them which is more expensive because you have to go deeper and you pay the city per day for the closure.

The one thing that has enabled fibre deployment here is that the incumbent is forced to allow other ISPs to rent space for a regulated price in thier existing ducts. In Switzerland I believe init7 benefit from the same principle but the incumbent rents the fibres themselves not duct space.

The only thing America needs to do is compromise the property rights of AT&T or build out city owned ducting. It's a bit socialist I guess, but look, it works.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 gbit internet and America doesn't

#307

Post by seszett »

eloisant wrote: post #271
LeonM wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in Switzerland there is a thing, that if a product or service has the name "Swiss" in its name, then it can be sold for any price regardless of quality That's just basic marketing. You'll see that in most countries, I don't believe that it is unique to Switzerland. For example: in the US you'll see many products that say "made in America" on the box. Those will likely outsell competing products, even if those are c…

Not really. In France we have a French brand of bikes, from the sports retailer Intersport, called Nakamura... They actually hide the fact it's a local brand, let people think it's a Japanese brand, to suggest it's higher quality.

And Decathlon's bikes are Van Rysel, which does mean "from Lille" (where the bikes are designed) but you wouldn't know it unless you speak Dutch. I don't think they hide anything really, but having a Dutch-sounding makes a connection to the Dutch and Flemish who are well known for cycling.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 gbit internet and America doesn't

#308

Post by inemesitaffia »

landgenoot wrote: post #280
inemesitaffia wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't sign up with a Tier 1 or aspiring one

How do I compare the peering capabilities of different ISP's? Assuming tier 1 ISP's are not available in my geographic location.

Radar by qrator and BGP.tools.

BGP.tools may be inaccurate for upstreams.

Liberty Global is fine.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 gbit internet and America doesn't

#309

Post by computerdork »

thinkingemote wrote: post #296
computerdork wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, think all the devs here should know this too (and am surprised people on HN are making such a big deal about this). Agreed, 500Mb is what most households need because, yeah, 90% of the time 4k video is the most demanding thing we do (which is only 25Mb/s per person in the household). Having been telling this to my family and friends whenever they want to upgrade to 1Gb/s, but to noavail. They rarely ever ta…

Agreed. It's telling that the ads for speed upgrades all seem to focus on families: when all are uploading and streaming maybe at the same time. The marketeers know that 1 individuals and couples are not the target market and 2 they want everyone to be using as much as possible.

those advertisers are crafty:)
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