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Podman v6.0.0

blog.podman.io

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Re: Podman v6.0.0

#161

Post by WhyNotHugo »

SwellJoe wrote: post #4

No idea why Docker is still so much more popular than Podman. Podman is obviously the better implementation. The new network stuff is a welcome improvement.

> No idea why Docker is still so much more popular than Podman. Podman is obviously the better implementation.

docker-compose is one big reason. The networking aspect of it still isn't feature-compatible compared to using docker. I keep trying podman+docker-compose again every 6–9 month, and there's also some issue that makes it unfeasible for my use case.

Its IPv6 implementation is also broken, and connections from the host to the container are dropped if the host doesn't have a public IPv6 address (WTF!?). I reported this in June 2024 (#22959). Not being able to reach an HTTP server on a podman container from my host when I'm offline is ridiculous.

Lots and lots of tiny little bugs and quirks which are a nuisance to deal with. With docker, everything just works.

Another recent bug I hit was that the value of the environment variable TMPDIR and XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is persisted to disk with podman's internal state. After a reboot, if either of those has changed, nothing works because podman tries to use directories that don't exist. This… seems to be due to workarounds for wildly broken setups.

I've reported many of these bugs, and have a backlog of a lot more that I haven't bothered to report yet.

What honestly really surprises me is how many people actually manage to use podman for work despite all its issues.

Re: Podman v6.0.0

#162

Post by WhyNotHugo »

danudey wrote: post #118
curt15 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Docker is basically a front end to containerd, the most common k8s container runtime? One could just as well ask why use a completely separate container stack just for local development when docker shares the same business end as the prod environment.

I mean, one answer is that docker configuration on your local dev machine can go one of two ways: 1. You have to use `sudo` for every `docker ...` command; or 2. You add your user to the `docker` group and now anything that can run as your user can use docker to read or write any file on your system, making docker into the best local privilege escalation option out there.

You can also run docker in rootless mode.

Re: Podman v6.0.0

#163

Post by chillfox »

SwellJoe wrote: post #4

No idea why Docker is still so much more popular than Podman. Podman is obviously the better implementation. The new network stuff is a welcome improvement.

They really upset me with how they introduced it initially, and I haven't looked at it since.

Redhat swapped in podman and removed docker, and all of the config/images/scripts I had spend 2 years making stopped working on new/replacement hosts... So I had to spend a lot of time in meetings/filling out paperwork to get docker back. I haven't forgiven Redhat for dropping that shitty experience on my head.

Re: Podman v6.0.0

#164

Post by tasuki »

rsyring wrote: post #149

As long as they refuse to support installing on Ubuntu (and other popular distros), without relying on the distro repos which are always out of date, they will continue to lose to Docker. Any serious project in this space supports as many distros as possible. It's OSS, so I'm not complaining per se, I have no right to. They owe me nothing. But this one issue has kept me from seriously considering Podman for years. Th…

> As long as they refuse to support installing on Ubuntu (and other popular distros), without relying on the distro repos which are always out of date, they will continue to lose to Docker.

Your needs are incomprehensible to me: that is exactly why I use podman: a predictable version of it is in my distro's repos.

I go to docker.com and how do I even install the thing? What's "docker sandboxes"?

Get the latest version of docker? Why would I want the latest version? I don't want the latest version, I want the same version as my other machines have, so things work everywhere. And I usually don't know what version that is. But I sure do know what Debian version my other machines run!

Again, your needs are utterly incomprehensible to me.

Re: Podman v6.0.0

#165

Post by rsyring »

tasuki wrote: post #164
rsyring wrote: post #149

As long as they refuse to support installing on Ubuntu (and other popular distros), without relying on the distro repos which are always out of date, they will continue to lose to Docker. Any serious project in this space supports as many distros as possible. It's OSS, so I'm not complaining per se, I have no right to. They owe me nothing. But this one issue has kept me from seriously considering Podman for years. Th…

> As long as they refuse to support installing on Ubuntu (and other popular distros), without relying on the distro repos which are always out of date, they will continue to lose to Docker. Your needs are incomprehensible to me: that is exactly why I use podman: a predictable version of it is in my distro's repos. I go to docker.com and how do I even install the thing? What's "docker sandboxes"? Get the latest versio…

I run Ubuntu 24.04 on my laptop and servers. The Podman version is 4.9.3.

It may be incompressible to you, but I'm not alone in thinking it's a problem:

https://github.com/podman-container-tools/podman/issues/2707...

Re: Podman v6.0.0

#166

Post by allarm »

gear54rus wrote: post #121
sudonem wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d wager it’s mainly just that deployment is mildly more annoying and requires more disparate steps. Especially if you want to go rootless (and you should). For someone that isn’t “Linux first” (like a baby developer learning to containerize their apps), the idea of dealing with systemd unit files or kublet configs, and having to created dedicated local service accounts (and remembering to enable linger) is somewhat…

Its not only intimidating, its clunky and error-prone. That's the answer to OP's question, this podman thing does not have good UX story.

Or, to look at it another way, the answer is that it’s the developers who don’t want to learn something new that, objectively speaking, might turn out to be better than what they’re used to.

Re: Podman v6.0.0

#167

Post by Xunjin »

sph wrote: post #55
zdragnar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've come to the wrong website to complain about contrast issues, my friend.

? HN’s contrast is great. It’s black on a light yellow-beige.

Please tell me you are being sarcastic.

Re: Podman v6.0.0

#168

Post by binsquare »

LeBit wrote: post #123
zuzululu wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

been using orbstack but this smol stuff is interesting is this firecracker or total rewrite

Can smolmachines run devcontainers? K3d?

yes to both, here's the example for running docker(indirectly, devcontainers) inside smolvm:

https://github.com/smol-machines/smolvm/blob/main/examples/d...

Re: Podman v6.0.0

#169

Post by drdexebtjl »

debugnik wrote: post #70
theK wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked podman compose was only a superficial docker compose equivalent. Also stuff like inotify seems to randomly break a lot on the podman side. I'd love to be able to recommend people use podman but not having a good docker compose compatibility and missing inotify on volumes makes the DX just too problematic.

You can use actual docker-compose with podman, the -compose projects are separate from podman/docker. podman-compose never worked well for me but docker-compose on podman did.

docker-compose (v1) is obsolete. The new version (v2) is a plugin for the docker CLI.

Re: Podman v6.0.0

#170

Post by canadaduane »

SwellJoe wrote: post #4

No idea why Docker is still so much more popular than Podman. Podman is obviously the better implementation. The new network stuff is a welcome improvement.

This was about a year ago, but I had trouble getting podman to add an nvidia GPU so that the container could use it. It was technically possible (I succeeded) but it was annoying and "different".
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