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Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

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Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#71

Post by dsl »

andai wrote: post #69
jmward01 wrote: post #39

Given the actual informed and uncoerced choice, people say no to this kind of collection and especially its sale or use for any purpose other than the explicit service they thought they were allowing it for (navigation, setting the time, etc etc). This is true for basically all information collected. I'm glad to see there is some minor protection language being included but it needs to have real teeth and get to the…

If I was rich, wouldn't I just pay the fines though? I hear about megacops fined billions of dollars every year for doing this shit they don't give a fuck Edit: Okay my brain processed the information now, criminal prosecution sounds like slightly more deterrence. (Nobody would do an illegal thing, after all ;)

Criminal prosecution isn't even an issue because it does not extend to the executives. PG&E somehow keeps paying fines to resolve murder charges.

https://liberationnews.org/pges-rap-sheet-the-criminal-histo...

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#72

Post by underlipton »

polski-g wrote: post #54
erentz wrote: post #46

What is the rationale for going to the trouble of such a law but only banning sale, rather than all sharing?

Because the data is very helpful in pricing risk of drivers in insurance premiums. Obviously risky drivers should be charged a higher rate.

Unless they're disclosing exactly how the location data is being used to measure driver risk, my assumption is that it's a form of redlining. Filing my racial discrimination lawsuit nnnnnnow.

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#73

Post by pixl97 »

polski-g wrote: post #52
codazoda wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside… I wonder why “80 mph” was picked as an arbitrary value. In rural areas of Utah we have 80 mph posted limits and prima facie speed laws. A lot of Utah drivers regularly exceed 80 MPH and I’d argue they do so legally. It’s just a weird number for them to pick.

It's not arbitrary. In Virginia that's a guaranteed reckless driving charge.

Texas: we set the speed limit at 85.

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#74

Post by s1artibartfast »

Retric wrote: post #62
s1artibartfast wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the limit of coercion? Can someone provide a product that loudly says "we will sell your geolocation data" on checkout? Is it coercion if you simply want the product?

Yes. Paying the money the data is worth isn’t coercive, linking some other transaction to selling your location data is. This includes having a discount larger than what your location data is worth. IE: I’ll sell you this car for 50k, o you want it without location tracking that will be 150k.

If thats the standard, then I suggest people find a less polarizing word with a clearer definition.

Putting the semantics aside, Who decides what it is worth and to whom?

Why wouldn't a company sell a car without geodata for what it is worth? Maybe it is worth 150k to them because that is what some people will pay the maximum return price point for that package?

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#75

Post by spiralpolitik »

dv_dt wrote: post #10

So let's say a Delaware incorporated company sells location data that happens to be collected in Virginia, but its sold from the corporation with no operations in Virginia. What happens? On the other hand us-east-1 is in Virginia with who knows how many payment processing servers running.

If the Delaware company has zero presence in Virginia then the state of Virginia can't do anything about it.

The presence of us-east-1 in Virginia probably will complicate the matter considerably and I'm guessing it's something the courts would need to sort out.

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#76

Post by jmward01 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #74
Retric wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Paying the money the data is worth isn’t coercive, linking some other transaction to selling your location data is. This includes having a discount larger than what your location data is worth. IE: I’ll sell you this car for 50k, o you want it without location tracking that will be 150k.

If thats the standard, then I suggest people find a less polarizing word with a clearer definition. Putting the semantics aside, Who decides what it is worth and to whom? Why wouldn't a company sell a car without geodata for what it is worth? Maybe it is worth 150k to them because that is what some people will pay the maximum return price point for that package?

There is a valid debate but the example I gave clearly coerced the consumer. They had paid for something with the expectation of use and then were hit with a requirement to give consent after the transaction. We shouldn't let some grey area prevent us from stopping the ongoing harm. One side has clearly been abusing the other. If a law goes just a little to far in favor of the consumer I think we can all agree that is better than letting the consumer be completely abused without protections. You don't let an attacker keep punching their victim because we gotta get the laws perfect to act to stop them. Act and reduce the harm and then adjust to get the balance right.

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#77

Post by Retric »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #74
Retric wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Paying the money the data is worth isn’t coercive, linking some other transaction to selling your location data is. This includes having a discount larger than what your location data is worth. IE: I’ll sell you this car for 50k, o you want it without location tracking that will be 150k.

If thats the standard, then I suggest people find a less polarizing word with a clearer definition. Putting the semantics aside, Who decides what it is worth and to whom? Why wouldn't a company sell a car without geodata for what it is worth? Maybe it is worth 150k to them because that is what some people will pay the maximum return price point for that package?

One of the major things courts do is price stuff, ie how much is a lost leg worth.

The question isn’t what’s the value of not being tracked, the question is what’s tracking data itself is worth. Here what the company actually makes selling the data puts an actual price on what that data is worth.

If you can make 50$/year selling the data and want to pay someone 40$ to be tracked that’s a reasonable transaction, if you want to charge them 1,000$/year not to be tracked than it’s no longer about what the data itself is worth.

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#78

Post by toss1 »

dsl wrote: post #71
andai wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was rich, wouldn't I just pay the fines though? I hear about megacops fined billions of dollars every year for doing this shit they don't give a fuck Edit: Okay my brain processed the information now, criminal prosecution sounds like slightly more deterrence. (Nobody would do an illegal thing, after all ;)

Criminal prosecution isn't even an issue because it does not extend to the executives. PG&E somehow keeps paying fines to resolve murder charges. https://liberationnews.org/pges-rap-sheet-the-criminal-histo...

Hence, the alleged action of Luigi Mangione.

If the law of the government doesn't catch up, eventually the law of the jungle will. But maybe not in their lifetimes.

As President John Fitzgerald Kennedy said: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable."

Re: Virginia bans sale of precise geolocation data

#79

Post by Pxtl »

What I find confusing is that I know an infinite plethora of companies have geolocation data in everyone.... But I look at my fairly-stock Pixel phone and the only things with background geolocation permissions are Google apps, and I know google famously hoards that data like a dragon.

Is it just that people are happily allowing every app access to live geoloc data even in background? Is there some edge where "while in use" apps are "in use" during cases you wouldn't think they are? Is it my Samsung watch?

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