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The short leash AI coding method for beating Fable

blog.okturtles.org

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Re: The short leash AI coding method for beating Fable

#11

Post by kristianc »

avereveard wrote: post #7

Seems hella inefficient. Better method start to realizing that everything that every program do is data transformations and or movement Then you ask llm to subdivide data in a tree along the domain model, classifing streaming vs storing nodes Then for each node you discuss with the ai for the best data structure Then you ask for an interface that fully encapsulate the structure and every mutation only allows to go fr…

In my experience it, or something close to it, is the only way. AI needs good code to be beaten out of it.

Re: The short leash AI coding method for beating Fable

#12

Post by hungryhobbit »

I I mean, it's like writing a book about how to use React or Django or some other major software ... after you used it for one project for a month!

Authors: I know this is the Internet, and I know bloggers blog about whatever pops into their head ... but if you are going to act like an authority, how about you learn more than the average reader before you start telling them authoritatively what to do?

Re: The short leash AI coding method for beating Fable

#13

Post by gambiting »

jonplackett wrote: post #6

I thought this was how everyone who can actually code uses AI for anything that’s actually important. Am I wrong? Are you guys just YOLOing everything these days?

>>You never use “YOLO” mode (aka “dangerously skip permissions”)

Do you mean this?

I'm curious how are people using Claude in any way other than bypass-permissions. I've tried for so long to maintain a curated list of things Claude can use, but inevitably I would always come back only to find it stuck because it decided to pipe an output of one tool into another and that's not explicitly allowed so it stopped even though it was just greping or whatever. I found it infuriating. In bypass-permissions it "just works" but then again I only use it to analyze existing code and suggest new changes(and even if it breaks something that's what source control is for?)

Re: The short leash AI coding method for beating Fable

#14

Post by johndough »

guessmyname wrote: post #8
bonsai_spool wrote: post #3

I'm curious whether Opus4.8 or similar can attain Mythos level through good system prompting and steering? You would expect this to work if it's true that the strength of Mythos is its unwillingness to quit before it gets a desired outcome

As a Mythos user (I’m part of Project Glasswing), I would say that abliterated models [1][2] produce similar, if not identical, results. While good prompting and steering won’t give Claude Opus 4.8 the same capabilities as Mythos (preview 1), using abliterated models (if you have the computational power to run the larger ones) will get you close to the same goals as people who have access to Mythos (preview 1) [3]. […

Any specific abliterated big models you can recommend?

Re: The short leash AI coding method for beating Fable

#15

Post by kristianc »

hungryhobbit wrote: post #12

I I mean, it's like writing a book about how to use React or Django or some other major software ... after you used it for one project for a month! Authors: I know this is the Internet, and I know bloggers blog about whatever pops into their head ... but if you are going to act like an authority, how about you learn more than the average reader before you start telling them authoritatively what to do?

People are doing what they've always done with any other new technology, and sharing what, personally, works for them. People can take or leave the advice.

Re: The short leash AI coding method for beating Fable

#16

Post by tracerbulletx »

hungryhobbit wrote: post #12

I I mean, it's like writing a book about how to use React or Django or some other major software ... after you used it for one project for a month! Authors: I know this is the Internet, and I know bloggers blog about whatever pops into their head ... but if you are going to act like an authority, how about you learn more than the average reader before you start telling them authoritatively what to do?

There are a lot of people with a long career in the old way of doing things are feeling incredibly threatened and defensive and desperate to virtue signal about AI.

Re: The short leash AI coding method for beating Fable

#17

Post by sebmellen »

gambiting wrote: post #13
jonplackett wrote: post #6

I thought this was how everyone who can actually code uses AI for anything that’s actually important. Am I wrong? Are you guys just YOLOing everything these days?

>>You never use “YOLO” mode (aka “dangerously skip permissions”) Do you mean this? I'm curious how are people using Claude in any way other than bypass-permissions. I've tried for so long to maintain a curated list of things Claude can use, but inevitably I would always come back only to find it stuck because it decided to pipe an output of one tool into another and that's not explicitly allowed so it stopped even th…

I’ve found unexpected success in using ephemeral NixOS VMs for local development… once you authenticate your agent you can let it run wild without worrying about permissions.

Re: The short leash AI coding method for beating Fable

#18

Post by moezd »

LLMs are still next token predictors, just because you can give it more vague instructions and it still finds the right steps to follow, it doesn't mean it's intelligent. It means you're speaking the same language as the harness they trained your model on.

And that has a limit. If you are stuck at PoC level or simple apps, you have no idea how limited the current models still are. There you really need to break tasks down, not just trust a token predictor to list steps that sound good. There has to be a human in the loop somewhere, because by the time you start skipping permissions, best case you get the jackpot, more likely is you get a suboptimal solution and token waste and what's genuinely still terrifying when the model ignores instructions and does some stupid nonsense, ruining your day. It really is as sharp as a CNC machine. It's not not useful, but could be dangerous, so maybe don't try to carve wood with a monster machine, or park your Ferrari in that crammed neighbourhood if you don't know how to parallel park.

Re: The short leash AI coding method for beating Fable

#19

Post by faizshah »

kissgyorgy wrote: post #9

This is probably slower than writing the code yourself. Doesn't make sense to me. Using an agent without YOLO mode is not wort it. The way I rather do it is tightly control the output by skills written yourself, prompts, plans, etc. and have the closest possible outcome you would write yourself.

Not really if it takes you 15 minutes to write a 50 line function but it takes the AI 90 seconds then you already are at a 10x speedup just for this task.

This (non-yolo mode AI coding) is actually how we used to code in the old days (2023).

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