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Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

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Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's perfectly fine to disagree with a court's decision, what's the crime here?

Because it's factually and flagrantly incorrect. > Contempt of court is a legal offense that occurs when an individual or organization interferes with the administration of justice or willfully disrespects a court's authority, dignity, or orders.

You can disagree with the judgment as long as you follow the orders.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#142
post #8

> the U.S. ambassador to the EU Andrew Puzder told CNBC that Europe “can’t over regulate” and hit companies with “huge fines” if it is going to participate in the AI economy I love how the US will just let companies walk all over their citizens and then criticize others for not letting it happen. "Please think of the poor multi billion dollar companies".

Notice how HN people talk about it - companies breaking laws and defrauding are framed as "risk taking" and those following the law "risk averse". It is about "legal risk".

They dont see any value in "doing the right thing" if the right thing dont earn money and power. They cant even imagine a person doing the right thing for any reason other then being afraid.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#143

Just more "disguised taxation" on US based digital services, by the EU. Tariff the heck out of EU goods !

Do you really believe the EU needs to "disguise" taxes? And that a $23 trillion economy wants to wait 8 years to collect $4.7 billion?

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think rather, that it is the EU who cannot live without US cloud services and AI-services. Imagine if the US, behind closed doors of course, threatened to cut off all cloud services. Huge parts of the public and private sector could collapse.

EU can live fine without US cloud services, and it's not very dependent on AI at the moment. If access would be cut off, companies would just switch to other solutions, which BTW are already there. The question is more how much time they would have to switch and adapt. An unannounced zero-day cut off would be of course harmful for a while (days, weeks, maybe months), but on most parts could be probably solved in a sh…

I wish.

The EU could be fine but it's just not doing it. Companies in the EU and even EU institutions do keep on using US SaaS, from Microsoft to AWS to Oracle institutions and companies claim they want sovereignty but when it's time to deploy their IT plan, they just don't.

TL;DR: in theory yes, in practice it is just not happening at scale.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think rather, that it is the EU who cannot live without US cloud services and AI-services. Imagine if the US, behind closed doors of course, threatened to cut off all cloud services. Huge parts of the public and private sector could collapse.

This already happened. The US government cut off a judge at the international criminal court from her Office365 account because she was pressing a war crimes case against Benjamin Netanyahu. It's the reason why in the last year you've seen multiple European governments very quickly build an escape hatch against US tech. We all expect that you'll use our dependency on US services as a weapon, you've already done so, s…

I call bullshit on the "very quickly" part there. It'll take a decade to phase out. And some don't seem interested at all (my employer for instance).

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#146
post #16

Apologies for the meta: I feel that our understanding of trust and antitrust, along with the legal and regulatory premises... Just isn't very useful in the 21st century. I understand the motivation, and justification for employing antitrust. Google's business model, and much of modern tech economy is really all about Monopoly-like market power. In fact, one of the main concerns for AI investors is price competition,…

Peter Thiel himself is a good reason to avoid monopolies. He is dangerous fascist with political goals that would make life of most of us hell. He defends monopilies, because he is seeking to create one and then use its power to harm the rest of us.

So the best we can do for the future is to prevent Thiels of the world from monopoly creation.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#147
post #65

This was from 2018, and google has gotten worse. Do the fines get reapplied for the 8 years that passed while they did nothing? Google has what, 100B+ revenue in EU? This is a once-only, 4% fine from 8 years ago. Still too little.

The point of fines is to correct behavior, not to cause financial ruin.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The end goal shouldn't be "monopolies, but European", the end goal should be no monopolies.

Is ASML "European" or a "monopoly" under your definition as one can't be both?

Why can't it be both? After all GP did not give any definitions. He simply and clearly stated:

> The end goal shouldn't be "monopolies, but European", the end goal should be no monopolies.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#149
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a shakedown. Nothing more. Perhaps believable, had it not survived eight years of litigation ending at the ECJ, or had there been some informal "pay up or else" demand attached, neither of which is true.

> Perhaps believable, had it not survived eight years of litigation ending at the ECJ You're of course making the assumption the ECJ isn't biased towards ruling in favor of the EU in these disputes... > or had there been some informal "pay up or else" demand attached, neither of which is true. Isn't there a formal "pay up or else" demand attached? If Google doesn't pay, then what? I would take this a lot more serious…

> No, they're OK with Google apparently not changing much of anything and being allowed to continue operating so long as they pay the fine first.

This is false. They were asked to:

- Stop tying Google Search and Chrome to the Play Store.

- Permit competing Android versions.

- Stop exclusivity incentives for Google Search.

- Provide genuine room for rival search engines and browsers.

This is separate from the fine and they were given 90 days in 2018 to comply with the above.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#150
post #4

“Android provides more choice for everyone and supports thousands of businesses. This judgment fails to recognize our significant investment to ensure Android remains open, interoperable and free,” a Google spokesperson told CNBC. Sure. Which is why alternative stores like F-Droid are under threat now. https://keepandroidopen.org/

Why I cannot send email from my self-hosted, no dns, servers to gmail? email addresses with IP literals are much stronger than SPF (email is dropped if the IP of the SMTP client does not match the IP literal in the envelope and in all appropriate 'from' headers). I cannot browse youtube with a noscript/basic HTML browser (basic HTML element). It is not enough, much more is needed to make those companies behave.

> Why I cannot send email from my self-hosted, no dns, servers to gmail?

Because email is a cesspool ruined by spammers and Google is doing the only sensible thing they can to block the scams and pill ads from reaching their users inboxes.

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