Is One Layer Enough? A Single Transformer Layer Matches Full-Parameter RL Train
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Re: Is One Layer Enough? A Single Transformer Layer Matches Full-Parameter RL Train
#2If you think about it for some time then you’ll come to realise transformers are autoencoders on steroids. A small input space is expanded onto a big manifold and contracted again.
Now, suppose you want to impose a function to regulate the output of an autoencoder. It’s actually pretty obvious that you need exactly one layer to do so… f(manifold).
Re: Is One Layer Enough? A Single Transformer Layer Matches Full-Parameter RL Train
#3If you think about it for some time then you’ll come to realise transformers are autoencoders on steroids. A small input space is expanded onto a big manifold and contracted again. Now, suppose you want to impose a function to regulate the output of an autoencoder. It’s actually pretty obvious that you need exactly one layer to do so… f(manifold).
Took me a short time to understand what you mean with "autoencoders on steroids", but I believe you mean they are autoencoders with an inverse bottleneck - an intermediate representation that isn't smaller, but that's much larger than the input space. Is my understanding of your comment correct?
Re: Is One Layer Enough? A Single Transformer Layer Matches Full-Parameter RL Train
#4If you think about it for some time then you’ll come to realise transformers are autoencoders on steroids. A small input space is expanded onto a big manifold and contracted again. Now, suppose you want to impose a function to regulate the output of an autoencoder. It’s actually pretty obvious that you need exactly one layer to do so… f(manifold).
I might be misunderstanding your point but this conflates the distinguishing features of each. you mention expansion but autoencoders canonically compress their inputs. autoencoders have an explicit encoder and decoder. most transformers we interact with these days (LLMs) are decoder only. the manifold isn't typically something the model is applied to directly. we apply the function/model to the latent representations. those are what live on the manifold.
Re: Is One Layer Enough? A Single Transformer Layer Matches Full-Parameter RL Train
#5If you think about it for some time then you’ll come to realise transformers are autoencoders on steroids. A small input space is expanded onto a big manifold and contracted again. Now, suppose you want to impose a function to regulate the output of an autoencoder. It’s actually pretty obvious that you need exactly one layer to do so… f(manifold).
Took me a short time to understand what you mean with "autoencoders on steroids", but I believe you mean they are autoencoders with an inverse bottleneck - an intermediate representation that isn't smaller, but that's much larger than the input space. Is my understanding of your comment correct?
Kind of. Autoencoders don’t need to have an embedding that’s smaller than the input. Their only requirement is that they compress information and thus create reconstruction loss. Typically however they are not trained this way because they don’t converge.. transformers do the same thing, but they can squeeze much more bits of information through one pass because the way they are designed. This holds true even for decoder only networks because they’re still doing the same thing
Re: Is One Layer Enough? A Single Transformer Layer Matches Full-Parameter RL Train
#6If you think about it for some time then you’ll come to realise transformers are autoencoders on steroids. A small input space is expanded onto a big manifold and contracted again. Now, suppose you want to impose a function to regulate the output of an autoencoder. It’s actually pretty obvious that you need exactly one layer to do so… f(manifold).
I might be misunderstanding your point but this conflates the distinguishing features of each. you mention expansion but autoencoders canonically compress their inputs. autoencoders have an explicit encoder and decoder. most transformers we interact with these days (LLMs) are decoder only. the manifold isn't typically something the model is applied to directly. we apply the function/model to the latent representation…
Now that’s interesting.. what exactly distinguishes latent representations and the manifold? IMHO, those are the same, and you’re constructing a piecewise function of the manifold itself. Decoders also produce manifolds much in the same way, with the distinction being that the encoder isn’t learned but static after initialisation. So fundamentally it is still DOING the same operation.
Re: Is One Layer Enough? A Single Transformer Layer Matches Full-Parameter RL Train
#7If you think about it for some time then you’ll come to realise transformers are autoencoders on steroids. A small input space is expanded onto a big manifold and contracted again. Now, suppose you want to impose a function to regulate the output of an autoencoder. It’s actually pretty obvious that you need exactly one layer to do so… f(manifold).
What you're suggesting seems to go implausibly far beyond what the paper says.
RL post-training alters the parameters of the transformer, while your f(manifold) idea seems to suggest that a new layer on top would suffice, no need to alter the transformer itself at all.
It would be extremely handy if that were so, but I'm guessing it isn't, or it would be the prevailing approach.
Re: Is One Layer Enough? A Single Transformer Layer Matches Full-Parameter RL Train
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
I might be misunderstanding your point but this conflates the distinguishing features of each. you mention expansion but autoencoders canonically compress their inputs. autoencoders have an explicit encoder and decoder. most transformers we interact with these days (LLMs) are decoder only. the manifold isn't typically something the model is applied to directly. we apply the function/model to the latent representation…
Now that’s interesting.. what exactly distinguishes latent representations and the manifold? IMHO, those are the same, and you’re constructing a piecewise function of the manifold itself. Decoders also produce manifolds much in the same way, with the distinction being that the encoder isn’t learned but static after initialisation. So fundamentally it is still DOING the same operation.
The latent representations of the data are like points on a surface. That surface is the manifold. We don't typically have the full manifold and can only sample points from it by embedding data into it.
Worth noting a different manifold "exists" after each transformation (e.g. layer). You only sample from the same manifold when you apply the same transformation(s).
Re: Is One Layer Enough? A Single Transformer Layer Matches Full-Parameter RL Train
#9This result feels very intuitive. The early layers of a transformer can be thought of as understanding surface level things like syntax, how tokens group, which groups are entities and how to disambiguate them, etc. The last layers are in a sense decoding ideas into a selection of words, ensuring the grammar makes sense, that the text flows and is structured correctly, etc. The middle layers are where the abstract thought and manipulation of concepts is happening.
But for the tasks this paper uses for RL training, it's all about improving the way the net is manipulating concepts. So the middle layers are where the focus should be.
Note: RL is also used for tasks that aren't about conceptual manipulation, like instruct training. I bet that their result doesn't hold for that because the delta vs the foundation model is all about the selection of words and flow of the text, not the core understanding.
Re: Is One Layer Enough? A Single Transformer Layer Matches Full-Parameter RL Train
#10If most of the performance gains are hidden in a few middle layers, you can save a massive amount of compute by freezing the rest