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Healthy but sedentary people show early decline in cellular energy production

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Re: Healthy but sedentary people show early decline in cellular energy production

#61

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Absolutely. There's a reason body fat percentage in New York City is so much lower than anywhere else in the US!

This is something I've visually observed all over Australia. The walkable areas are noticeably fitter. I don't think all of those people just happen to care about fitness more, they just spend more time moving to get between places rather than sitting all day.

Absolutely! Fitness scales super closely with localized population density.

Re: Healthy but sedentary people show early decline in cellular energy production

#62
post #51

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No, that would wake you up long before it had cardiovascular benefit. You need your heart rate up into zone 2 to 5 to really have a positive impact. That's 120 BPM plus for most people. Once you're around 80 it'll wake up anyone, even someone with very low cardiovascular fitness.

> Once you're around 80 it'll wake up anyone Source? I haven't been able to find info on this. I get resuls on nocturnal tachycardia and such. Nothing on elevating a sleeping person's heart rate and observing the result, though.

To be clear, if you implanted a lead, you might not wake them up. It's the mechanism by which you would raise their heartrate that would wake them - the same things that elevate heartrate from external stimulation would also cause cortical arousal.

Re: Healthy but sedentary people show early decline in cellular energy production

#63
post #57

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Yeah pretty much the only way to scale exercise to entire populations and over entire lifetimes is to design it directly into the cities.

The crazy part is you don't even have to DESIGN it, the market is desperate to build walkable density because it's so much more profitable than anything else. You just have to LET landowners build upward.

But then you'll run into traffic/parking issues unless you have a good public transit and land use policy (e.g. bikes, trams, mixed use development, etc). That requires such good design skills few cities have mastered it (Tokyo, Copenhagen, Singapore).

Re: Healthy but sedentary people show early decline in cellular energy production

#64
post #49
post #41

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Carbon dioxide is produced as a metabolic waste product from exercise. Any sort of fat-burning you want to do is limited by the rate at which you can exhale CO2. This is why vigorous exercise is accompanied by heavy breathing. This includes not only cardiovascular training but also weight training. Lifting heavy weights will have you breathing very hard! Unfortunately, if you don’t lift heavy (or if you use electrica…

With respect to this idea, I'm not particularly interested in either of those goals. More the general longevity and health improvements that come with regular exercise irrespective of weight loss or muscle gain [1]. I haven't been able to find much in the way of research on the tolerability of EMS during sleep. I would be surprised if the idea is actually feasible. It just seems like it would be such a big win if it…

I hear some people fix their sleep problems by staying awake much longer for some days then follow a strict schedule.

For me, after physical activity sleeping is much easier but if i over do it cortisol wil make it worse. (I once created an exercise formula that kept me awake long enough I started hallucinating) Spinach does miracles for me, the magnesium folate and flavonoids lower cortisol. Popeye was apparently on to something.

YMMV

Re: Healthy but sedentary people show early decline in cellular energy production

#65
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crazy part is you don't even have to DESIGN it, the market is desperate to build walkable density because it's so much more profitable than anything else. You just have to LET landowners build upward.

But then you'll run into traffic/parking issues unless you have a good public transit and land use policy (e.g. bikes, trams, mixed use development, etc). That requires such good design skills few cities have mastered it (Tokyo, Copenhagen, Singapore).

I know it seems this way, but all you have to do is not subsidize driving with government provided parking, and not build highways, and there's no traffic problem, because people don't get cars in the first place - they don't have anywhere to put them and there's no highway to punch through dense neighborhoods. Transit and bike infrastructure can always be built after the fact through public demand. When you let go, the people who WANT to live in high density without cars FLOCK to what gets built.

In fact, if you really stop zoning, there's a decent chance companies will ASK to operate transit for you, because those population densities and no free car competition can make it profitable. This happens in many cities!

Mixed use development happens if you let it happen. Banks and developers like money, and mixed use makes way more money, so they want to build it. Sometimes they fuck up and don't, and those land owners pay the price and retrofit. And that's fine. Again, just let them.

In high engagement Western societies, where people get involved in politics and urban planning, "design" universally leads to car subsidies and shitty outcomes. The market does a way better job.

Re: Healthy but sedentary people show early decline in cellular energy production

#66
post #45

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Well, it's causing muscle contractions. At high enough intensity, it should raise your heart rate. It's just a matter of what intensity level is tolerable during sleep (and the effect on sleep quality), no?

No, that would wake you up long before it had cardiovascular benefit. You need your heart rate up into zone 2 to 5 to really have a positive impact. That's 120 BPM plus for most people. Once you're around 80 it'll wake up anyone, even someone with very low cardiovascular fitness.

I read with the right dream (nightmare) heart rate can climb to 180.

If you slowly condition yourself I think you can exchange sleep quality for increased heart rate.

But I suspect the heart needs rest too and you will die.

An isometric hold would be better I think. You don't get any vo2max improvement but it does improve cardiovascular health.

Re: Healthy but sedentary people show early decline in cellular energy production

#67
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that would wake you up long before it had cardiovascular benefit. You need your heart rate up into zone 2 to 5 to really have a positive impact. That's 120 BPM plus for most people. Once you're around 80 it'll wake up anyone, even someone with very low cardiovascular fitness.

I read with the right dream (nightmare) heart rate can climb to 180. If you slowly condition yourself I think you can exchange sleep quality for increased heart rate. But I suspect the heart needs rest too and you will die. An isometric hold would be better I think. You don't get any vo2max improvement but it does improve cardiovascular health.

That's an interesting idea. Do you know if anyone's tried it?

Re: Healthy but sedentary people show early decline in cellular energy production

#68
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read with the right dream (nightmare) heart rate can climb to 180. If you slowly condition yourself I think you can exchange sleep quality for increased heart rate. But I suspect the heart needs rest too and you will die. An isometric hold would be better I think. You don't get any vo2max improvement but it does improve cardiovascular health.

That's an interesting idea. Do you know if anyone's tried it?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48755297

Re: Healthy but sedentary people show early decline in cellular energy production

#70

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The principle of what you're stating is true, it could be correlational. But there's an enormous volume of evidence that exercise, especially intense exercise, is better for health than any other intervention, including more sleep, quality of diet, pills+supplements (except those that treat an active illness/disease of course). There's even compelling data showing that moderate drinkers who exercise live longer than…

>(Anything above ~15% bodyfat in men has negative implications for lifespan, and ~30% for women; when reviewed at scale) Can you link evidence for this? I stay at 12% year around as male (confirmed via DEXA)

Sounds like absolute BS to me. Even in very large scale studies specifically designed for studying mortality, only morbid obesity has been negatively correlated with lifespan. There is even some evidence that being a little overweight is actually helpful for the very old (essentially, because it gives them more buffer if they get sick enough that they stop eating for a while). A lot of this is because modern medicine has gotten very good at treating stuff like diabetes and other stuff caused by obesity. Your quality of life will undoubtedly improve if you are thinner, but that's not the same thing.
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