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The Anti-Palantir Manifesto

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Re: The Anti-Palantir Manifesto

#81

Post by omnimus »

smalltorch wrote: post #67
Lendal wrote: post #19

> 5. Surveillance can only be defeated by building software and hardware to defend ourselves. Here's where it went off the rails. Once you've abandoned the idea of democracy and peaceful self-governance, you're just another technofascist. You are Palantir, just in an earlier stage.

I don't think you have to abandon the idea of democracy and peaceful self-governance to build software good for defending common values. Why do you think this?

Because it implies that the solution is more better software. That a answers lie in technological solutions.

Re: The Anti-Palantir Manifesto

#82

Post by mattnewton »

gowld wrote: post #49
mattnewton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How hot does the water need to be before you raise the alarm? I think there is value in pointing out trend lines and voicing opposition even if there are other countries that have more authoritarian views on speech. This is not a competition, what matters is the experience of the people in the country today not the fact that if they moved to Russia it would be worse. What is important is that the US state has both ga…

Your comment is not responsive to the comment you replied to, which was a critique of point 19.

I read point 19 as Palantir’s goal being to import Chinese and Russian style surveillance, and the comment saying effectively “it can’t happen here” and “taking them less seriously” because they are raising alarm. After rereading my comment, I still think it clearly responds to that.

Re: The Anti-Palantir Manifesto

#83

Post by hashmap »

bko wrote: post #79
hashmap wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is more to the point, I think. You have a number of different minor inconveniences that you think are worth locking humans up for life for, and also you don't care about people who are not you even if they are not doing anything wrong. That doesn't make for a set of long-term legislative principles that would make a society work because they would be structurally sociopathic.

Correct, I don't think we should allow people to steal and terrorize the public. It's not a minor inconvenience and every sensible society in history would remove these people from the population. I imagine you live in a nice gated community where you don't have to deal with these people. Must be nice.

Wishing to remove people from the population for stealing packages is the sociopathy I'm talking about. Valuing personal property over human life is how you get so many people in positions where they end up stealing to begin with, so it is short sighted as well. The people who end up stealing, for the most part, are not well-off.

I live in an apartment building where packages regularly get stolen or torn apart, am regularly accosted in the street and frequently see people who are homeless, not that it matters. Those things absolutely are a minor inconvenience and beyond those few minutes I don't think much about it. It doesn't really impede me from going about my day, and I certainly don't fantasize about imprisoning and "removing these people from the population".

The kind of thinking that produces those words, though. That does frighten me.

Re: The Anti-Palantir Manifesto

#84

Post by andsoitis »

someonebaggy wrote: post #40
esseph wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because I'd rather not give money to Mullvad any more ?????? Why?

Front page HN 2 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48717469 One of the two Mullvad founders and shareholders provides 70% of a Swedish far-right political party's funding.

> far-right political party's funding.

From the wikipedia article on the Örebro Party:

"Some key issues for the Örebro Party locally include strong secularism, a 30-hour workweek with retained pay, lowered wages for politicians, expanded social housing, abolishing preschool-fees, making public transport free of charge, ending taxpayer funding of what it sees as wasteful sculptures, monuments and art and introducing free dental care. Nationally the party has set out large-scale remigration, closing the Swedish borders to immigration, a stricter assimilation policy and ending taxes on energy and fuel as some of its key issues."

And the party leader has described himself as a Communist and Marxist.

What makes them far-right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Örebro_Party

Re: The Anti-Palantir Manifesto

#85

Post by phantompeace »

cenobyte wrote: post #9

Europe and Asia have it much much worse than we do on the surveillance state. Ask anyone in jail for social media posts in the UK. Ask any Chinese citizen about their social score and how it's adjusted. So this sounds like an Anti-American and Anti-Palantir rant.

Which recent jailings were made for social media posts? Are you talking about the ones where people invited violence against migrants in hotels by calling for things like setting fire to their dwellings etc? Because that's a crime regardless of posting it on social media.

Re: The Anti-Palantir Manifesto

#86

Post by pc86 »

omnimus wrote: post #81
smalltorch wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you have to abandon the idea of democracy and peaceful self-governance to build software good for defending common values. Why do you think this?

Because it implies that the solution is more better software. That a answers lie in technological solutions.

Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. Believes that there are, at times, technical solutions to both technical and non-technical problems does not make someone a "technofascist."

Re: The Anti-Palantir Manifesto

#87

Post by pc86 »

andsoitis wrote: post #84
someonebaggy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Front page HN 2 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48717469 One of the two Mullvad founders and shareholders provides 70% of a Swedish far-right political party's funding.

> far-right political party's funding. From the wikipedia article on the Örebro Party: "Some key issues for the Örebro Party locally include strong secularism, a 30-hour workweek with retained pay, lowered wages for politicians, expanded social housing, abolishing preschool-fees, making public transport free of charge, ending taxpayer funding of what it sees as wasteful sculptures, monuments and art and introducing f…

> What makes them far-right?

Europe's Overton window being about a football field away from sanity.

Re: The Anti-Palantir Manifesto

#90

Post by someonebaggy »

andsoitis wrote: post #84
someonebaggy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Front page HN 2 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48717469 One of the two Mullvad founders and shareholders provides 70% of a Swedish far-right political party's funding.

> far-right political party's funding. From the wikipedia article on the Örebro Party: "Some key issues for the Örebro Party locally include strong secularism, a 30-hour workweek with retained pay, lowered wages for politicians, expanded social housing, abolishing preschool-fees, making public transport free of charge, ending taxpayer funding of what it sees as wasteful sculptures, monuments and art and introducing f…

The part about ending immigration and deporting a large percentage of the migrants who are already there
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