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ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

zcode.z.ai

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Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#121

Post by londons_explore »

npongratz wrote: post #97
estearum wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think the US has an "abysmal" track record on this, what words would you use to describe China's track record?

"Abysmal", but that's beside the point. Suppose a US citizen, residing and working in the US and never traveling to China, crosses The Powers That Be. Which Power is more likely to do worse things to said citizen? Pretty unlikely they'll be rendered to one of the illegal Chinese jails in Brooklyn, more likely they'll be sent to Gitmo or a black site.

This. For a typical citizen, your own government is a far bigger threat than a foreign one.

That's why, all other things equal, I try to keep my own government happy or ignorant, but don't really mind what I share with foreign governments, especially ones who won't forward the info to my own government.

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#122

Post by diego_moita »

maxloh wrote: post #51

I don't find a closed-source Chinese agent system trustworthy. It is essentially a black box with full user permissions, meaning you are just handing over your entire system to a Chinese-owned server. With OpenCode and its GLM provider, at least I can monitor which files were read, which were edited, and what commands were executed. Not to mention that Chinese national security laws legally obligate companies to coop…

> It is essentially a black box with full user permissions,

You mean, like Windows and Android?

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#123

Post by MangoCoffee »

i like Chinese open weight model that offer cheap token but i only use it for my personal project.

China have a history of stealing IPs/trade secrets and Chinese court favored its own local companies. while US have a robust court that can enforce IPs. if you want to risk your company's IPs/trade secrets/data for some cheap token. Go ahead and use Z.ai's services.

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#124

Post by cco »

seizethecheese wrote: post #11

I'm somewhat surprised that this is not open source (from what I can tell). Compare to Mimo Code https://github.com/XiaomiMiMo/MiMo-Code (which is a CLI, while this is a desktop app).

You're surprised? I think harnesses are almost as important as the underlying model. Folks have been able to improve benchmark results by nearly 2x based on harness alone.

Harnesses are quickly becoming critical components of the "model" itself imo. Not shocking to me at all that a company that spots a revenue opportunity is keeping its harness closed source.

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#125

Post by estearum »

preg_match wrote: post #104
pkulak wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but if you reach for the top shelf every time you need a word, you can't compare things anymore.

It’s just a coincidence that both the US and china have the absolute worst privacy concerns. They are the top shelf IMO. Comparing them I’d say they’re about equal, really, especially once we consider the financial sector and credit.

lmfao

You know you're sitting here on the open Internet complaining about the US government with literally zero fear of any repercussions in any sense whatsoever?

You should go to an actual authoritarian country and just ask someone their opinion on their government.

The difference between flippant, hyperbolic complaining (you) and someone who will actually glance over their shoulder and totally clam up in response to that type of question is quite chilling in reality.

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#126

Post by estearum »

npongratz wrote: post #97
estearum wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think the US has an "abysmal" track record on this, what words would you use to describe China's track record?

"Abysmal", but that's beside the point. Suppose a US citizen, residing and working in the US and never traveling to China, crosses The Powers That Be. Which Power is more likely to do worse things to said citizen? Pretty unlikely they'll be rendered to one of the illegal Chinese jails in Brooklyn, more likely they'll be sent to Gitmo or a black site.

That's actually not beside the point as it relates to GP's comment.

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#127

Post by andy99 »

dakolli wrote: post #115
ahrzb wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least the model weights are open, I’m not American, so to me this is much more trustworthy in every possible way. You’re talking as if US intelligence are the good guys, and to me at least, they are not to any extent.

There's no way to safely use SOTA LLMs if privacy, and IP protection are your concern. Unless you want to spend 100k+ to host a 1T param model. Even if you use OpenCode you're sending all that information to random data centers you know nothing about. But yes, US intelligence has killed and ruined the lives of far more people than China has. Not sure how so many people buy into the narrative that they're protecting f…

You can run one on a cloud provider. You’re correct that intelligence orgs probably still can access them, but if you’re that high value of a target then you have bigger problems and / or can afford to build an air gapped system or whatever. If you’re just concerned about other companies mining your messages, self hosting in the cloud solves that.

Reminds me a bit of the old “is your adversary Mossad or not Mossad” decision matrix https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1401_08-12_mickens.pdf

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#128

Post by patrickprunty »

LeBit wrote: post #114
ahrzb wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least the model weights are open, I’m not American, so to me this is much more trustworthy in every possible way. You’re talking as if US intelligence are the good guys, and to me at least, they are not to any extent.

We are talking about an agent harness here, not a model. Nevertheless, Americans thinking they are morally superior to China is always quite funny. This administration is corrupt, cruel and doesn’t care about human rights. And the worst is… Americans have voted for that administration…. twice! I digress…

How is this an agent harness? It’s the harness and the model if it’s weights

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#129

Post by blitzar »

ianm218 wrote: post #60
eeasss wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are not US based that’s not really a big concern.

I think it’s a real concern. Chinese companies are much more closely tied to the state, as in if you decide to go to China one day they might already have all the data on how you have interacted with their models. The US is certainly inching in that direction but it’s not like someone from the US government sits at Anthropic’s HQ reading chats from state people of interest.

> if you decide to go to China one day they might already have all the data

PRISM ... XKeyscore ...

> The US is certainly inching in that direction

Itching to go in a direction that (publicly known) they have been in for decades now.

Re: ZCode – Harness for GLM-5.2

#130

Post by snootypoot »

maxloh wrote: post #51

I don't find a closed-source Chinese agent system trustworthy. It is essentially a black box with full user permissions, meaning you are just handing over your entire system to a Chinese-owned server. With OpenCode and its GLM provider, at least I can monitor which files were read, which were edited, and what commands were executed. Not to mention that Chinese national security laws legally obligate companies to coop…

so basically no worse than europe or usa, but they are just more open about it
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