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Box3D, an open source 3D physics engine

box2d.org

61–70 of 135 posts

Re: Box3D, an open source 3D physics engine

#61
As an ML researcher, I know box2d because it underpins many of the standard reinforcement learning environments (in OpenAI Gym) that we use to benchmark methods, like Lunar Lander or Car Racing: https://gymnasium.farama.org/environments/box2d/car_racing/

Thanks to Erin for such a useful piece of software!

Re: Box3D, an open source 3D physics engine

#62
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work at Rovio (the creator of Angry Birds). Everyone was telling the story of a talk given by Peter Vesterbacka, the head of marketing. When it was time for questions, a man from the audience asked what physics engine the game uses. Vesterbacka gives the correct answer, Box2D, to which the person replied with another question. "Why isn't it mentioned in the credits? And by the way, I'm Erin Catto, the creat…

To the larger point, do you know if Rovio did support/pay Eric in any other way than that hoodie? Angry Birds generated $500M [0], supposedly. I would also not be surprised if the Rovio developers, designers, testers, etc. who worked on this game did not get a share of that $500M pie - I actually assume they didn't. But still, you know. Dare I say it - what about "fairness"? :-) [0] https://gameworldobserver.com/2023…

I find it odd how we frame fairness in regards to open source software. He licensed his software as MIT. It says anyone can you use it without owing the author anything. So how is it unfair?

To be clear, I think that open source maintainers deserve much more, but I don't understand why we rarely inspect the licenses as the source of the problem.

Re: Box3D, an open source 3D physics engine

#63
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the larger point, do you know if Rovio did support/pay Eric in any other way than that hoodie? Angry Birds generated $500M [0], supposedly. I would also not be surprised if the Rovio developers, designers, testers, etc. who worked on this game did not get a share of that $500M pie - I actually assume they didn't. But still, you know. Dare I say it - what about "fairness"? :-) [0] https://gameworldobserver.com/2023…

I find it odd how we frame fairness in regards to open source software. He licensed his software as MIT. It says anyone can you use it without owing the author anything. So how is it unfair? To be clear, I think that open source maintainers deserve much more, but I don't understand why we rarely inspect the licenses as the source of the problem.

Well there's this little pesky thing in the MIT license:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

That's what he was asking for, a mention in the credits.

Re: Box3D, an open source 3D physics engine

#64
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the larger point, do you know if Rovio did support/pay Eric in any other way than that hoodie? Angry Birds generated $500M [0], supposedly. I would also not be surprised if the Rovio developers, designers, testers, etc. who worked on this game did not get a share of that $500M pie - I actually assume they didn't. But still, you know. Dare I say it - what about "fairness"? :-) [0] https://gameworldobserver.com/2023…

I find it odd how we frame fairness in regards to open source software. He licensed his software as MIT. It says anyone can you use it without owing the author anything. So how is it unfair? To be clear, I think that open source maintainers deserve much more, but I don't understand why we rarely inspect the licenses as the source of the problem.

If I made 500M$ using an Open Source library and didn’t send at least 1M$ to the author, I would be an objectively bad person.

Re: Box3D, an open source 3D physics engine

#65
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the larger point, do you know if Rovio did support/pay Eric in any other way than that hoodie? Angry Birds generated $500M [0], supposedly. I would also not be surprised if the Rovio developers, designers, testers, etc. who worked on this game did not get a share of that $500M pie - I actually assume they didn't. But still, you know. Dare I say it - what about "fairness"? :-) [0] https://gameworldobserver.com/2023…

I find it odd how we frame fairness in regards to open source software. He licensed his software as MIT. It says anyone can you use it without owing the author anything. So how is it unfair? To be clear, I think that open source maintainers deserve much more, but I don't understand why we rarely inspect the licenses as the source of the problem.

Because there’s a clear mismatch between the value generated from Box2d vs the value the creator receives, and that’s common for open-source in general.

It would be common decency to donate even a small portion of that $500 million, even if the license technically doesn’t require it.

Re: Box3D, an open source 3D physics engine

#66
post #64
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it odd how we frame fairness in regards to open source software. He licensed his software as MIT. It says anyone can you use it without owing the author anything. So how is it unfair? To be clear, I think that open source maintainers deserve much more, but I don't understand why we rarely inspect the licenses as the source of the problem.

If I made 500M$ using an Open Source library and didn’t send at least 1M$ to the author, I would be an objectively bad person.

I find this whole conversation baffling. Licenses and contracts are not a replacement for being a decent person.

Re: Box3D, an open source 3D physics engine

#67
post #64
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it odd how we frame fairness in regards to open source software. He licensed his software as MIT. It says anyone can you use it without owing the author anything. So how is it unfair? To be clear, I think that open source maintainers deserve much more, but I don't understand why we rarely inspect the licenses as the source of the problem.

If I made 500M$ using an Open Source library and didn’t send at least 1M$ to the author, I would be an objectively bad person.

That’s a fine perspective, but the whole point of law is to guarantee outcomes. The license could easily say “if you make more than $500M, you must pay me $1M”. Why is that not an acceptable solution here?

Re: Box3D, an open source 3D physics engine

#68
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it odd how we frame fairness in regards to open source software. He licensed his software as MIT. It says anyone can you use it without owing the author anything. So how is it unfair? To be clear, I think that open source maintainers deserve much more, but I don't understand why we rarely inspect the licenses as the source of the problem.

Well there's this little pesky thing in the MIT license: The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. That's what he was asking for, a mention in the credits.

He got his name in the credits. The question was if he is owed anything else. The contract he created says he was not. I’m simply suggesting he might need a different contract.

Re: Box3D, an open source 3D physics engine

#69
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work at Rovio (the creator of Angry Birds). Everyone was telling the story of a talk given by Peter Vesterbacka, the head of marketing. When it was time for questions, a man from the audience asked what physics engine the game uses. Vesterbacka gives the correct answer, Box2D, to which the person replied with another question. "Why isn't it mentioned in the credits? And by the way, I'm Erin Catto, the creat…

To the larger point, do you know if Rovio did support/pay Eric in any other way than that hoodie? Angry Birds generated $500M [0], supposedly. I would also not be surprised if the Rovio developers, designers, testers, etc. who worked on this game did not get a share of that $500M pie - I actually assume they didn't. But still, you know. Dare I say it - what about "fairness"? :-) [0] https://gameworldobserver.com/2023…

Box2d is open source. For better or for worse, Rovio are entitled to use it.

Re: Box3D, an open source 3D physics engine

#70
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it odd how we frame fairness in regards to open source software. He licensed his software as MIT. It says anyone can you use it without owing the author anything. So how is it unfair? To be clear, I think that open source maintainers deserve much more, but I don't understand why we rarely inspect the licenses as the source of the problem.

Well there's this little pesky thing in the MIT license: The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. That's what he was asking for, a mention in the credits.

Since he eventually got the credit, your unfairness argument better build entirely on the damage the creator suffered by the delay of his credit.
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