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Venetian Bridge Brawls in 17th and 18th Century Art

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31–34 of 34 posts

Re: Venetian Bridge Brawls in 17th and 18th Century Art

#31

Great art is rooted in the hardest of human emotion. Is why we look back to ancient culture with reverance and sometimes nostalgia. We wouldn't want to be there in the midst of the brawl, most of us moderns would rather jump from the bridge. But our human spirit and memory recognizes the suffering and sacrifices of the ancestors. It's why there really isn't any "great art" anymore, at least in the classical sense, as…

> We wouldn't want to be there in the midst of the brawl, most of us moderns would rather jump from the bridge. People in some moshpits would beg to differ.

For any outsiders who have never experienced authentic mosh-pit dancing, I wish to testify to their value.

A good, organized mosh-pit is a safe place, and even a place where men (ok mostly men) can find camaraderie, encouragement and support. Mosh-pits are enjoyed by guys with some anger issues or simply need to get out aggression in a controlled way, and yeah, they wear spikes and leather and pull off their shirts, but the actual mosh-pit dancing is structured, ritualized, and supportive.

The mosh-pits I've danced in begin with a central "vortex" of guys who begin marching/stomping in a circular direction and flailing their arms around, mostly to establish a "personal space" or a "keep out zone" to indicate they're actively moving. And then they contrive to bump/bash into one another. And there are also bystanders or non-participants who stay on the border of this dance circle who also have the active role of keeping the dancers on-track and acting like the ropes in a boxing ring, cushioning them and bouncing them back into the vortex. The dancers aren't punching or kicking or striking to hurt others, but the physical contact is authentic and helps them feel alive. There's an informal choreography and style to mosh-pit dancing that's been refined over decades; styles may differ but they usually converge based on genres and locale.

Though these guys may be individually angry and bitter, and the music we're dancing to is abrasive, aggressive and rough, the dancers can respect one another, and they hold themselves to an honor code of safety and concern for others' well-being, because it is, ultimately, a catharsis and a dance, in a club or venue among neighbors and friends, and while a few bad apples can spoil a night's fun, I was pleasantly surprised when I tried it out myself.

Re: Venetian Bridge Brawls in 17th and 18th Century Art

#32
post #4

If anyone's played Assassin's Creed II (or any of the Ezio games) (these older games were produced with help from historians) Ezio's scar comes from a street fight on Ponte Vecchio in Venice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKTXd7L01pI2

One time my wife and I were watching a documentary on Florence and I was convinced we’d been there, was asking my wife when we went. Turns out I’d played too much AC.

Re: Venetian Bridge Brawls in 17th and 18th Century Art

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We wouldn't want to be there in the midst of the brawl, most of us moderns would rather jump from the bridge. People in some moshpits would beg to differ.

For any outsiders who have never experienced authentic mosh-pit dancing, I wish to testify to their value. A good, organized mosh-pit is a safe place, and even a place where men (ok mostly men) can find camaraderie, encouragement and support. Mosh-pits are enjoyed by guys with some anger issues or simply need to get out aggression in a controlled way, and yeah, they wear spikes and leather and pull off their shirts,…

Yep. Every mosh pit I've been in, when someone goes down, everyone around stops and gets them back up and out to safety if necessary.

(Granted, not every mosh pit is like that. There are some bands who are notorious for having dangerous pits, a few genres that encourage it, and a few concerts where people have been badly injured.)

Re: Venetian Bridge Brawls in 17th and 18th Century Art

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those with the means to produce it don't have any great emotions. Actually, re-reading your original post, this comes across as so asinine I do have to wonder if I'm replying to an LLM. Because it makes no sense to say that artists don't have emotions today that can compare to checks notes rowdy Venetians beating the shit out of each other.

there are incredibly wide swathes of society which go on about modern decadence and have outsized respect for violence as being somehow ennobling. As an example some people think the tough guys of the past who killed each other over women's handkerchiefs were real men and possessed of emotions more potent than those of the girly men that exist nowadays. This is not necessarily what was being claimed, just that there…

> The rowdy Venetians beating the shit out of each other came from a society with strict rules about honor and dueling, and they dueled over honor.

You're doing exactly the thing you described at the top of your comment.

TFA explicitly mentions that participants would regularly sneak deadly weapons into the fights and had to be policed.

I also don't think street fights are particularly honorable at all. They literally were just deciding disputes by a combination of force and deception (which plays a role in all combat) rather than communication, compromise, cooperation, diplomacy, empathy, or any other virtue. Slashing a critic's throat doesn't make your viewpoints valid it just makes them unchallenged.

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